I learn much from the historical theologians of our faith, who like us, were thinkers. Here's some 6th century insight as to the Bible;

For as the word of God, by the mysteries which it contains, exercises the understanding of the wise, so usually by what presents itself on the outside, it nurses the simple-minded. It presents in open day that wherewith the little ones may be fed; it keeps in secret that whereby men of a loftier range may be held in suspense of admiration. It is, as it were, a kind of river, if I may so liken it, which is both shallow and deep, wherein both the lamb may find a footing, and the elephant float at large. (Gregory the Great, Morals on the Book of Job, pref. 4)

How can the same Scripture be both shallow and deep? Because of the mysteries which it contains.

Blessings,
Mark

The many contradictory and fanciful beliefs on here only make me more secure in the life journey that has resulted in my position as a non-believer. I sure don't need to accept accounts of supernatural actions and magic tricks in order to be judged to be a good person. Dust to dust.

Jarhead

We all get to decide who's boss. There is wonder (and mercy) in that.
We all got here somehow.
Unless you're a gnostic and all this is a wisp.

I have always been fascinated why someone would hang their eternal hat on a human opinion tree.
Those all just make for good firewood.

Some stand, 1988 years later, with the only human to ever rise out of a grave after being in it for three days.
Some stand opposed.
There's always only ever been two sides.
Still is.

Blessings y'all,
Mark

Well Jarhead, its not our job to judge the good and bad here in the Kingdom of Heaven. Its all just a mixture and has the wheat and tares all growing together. In the end at harvest when the wheat is bowed over and the tares are standing erect they will be easy to remove without damaging the wheat. So why not just let them grow together for now.

Why would a person care if he was judged to be "good" if he believes he is just dust?

What restraint would dust have to be called good?

I can sorta see why an anti-trapper would oppose trapping.... save the whales anthropology.
Why are people anti-Christian? I mean I sorta understand why the philosophers like Karl Marx said religion was the opiate of the people and if only people could be freed from it, they would finally reach their glory among humanity.
But why the other anti-Christian concern?
It is the anthropological apologetic for the existence of God.
One of the strongest of several arguments.

And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying unto me in the Hebrew language, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the goad. Acts 26:14

That's a blasphemous meme you posted, Davisfur. I've done worse in my former ignorance. A meme won't be an argument in that day, it won't protect you or offer you an excuse. You'll stand naked, mute, alone and be charged with it. That's if God in his mercy doesn't open your eyes and grant you the gift of repentance.

I appreciate your concern Posco. And you are not saying anything I haven't heard before. I was raised in a very strict church and we were there every time the doors were open. I was dragged into church at times by my ear while running a fever because it was "a sin" to miss church. At the age of 13 I was taken aside by 4 very popular and nationally known preachers of that church during a meeting and given private lessons that consisted of them telling me that if I didn't get baptized not only would my soul burn in everlasting fire but I would be condemning my mother and grandmother (two of the most God-fearing women to ever draw breath} to the same fate because it was thier job to see me baptized into the church and they failed. So that night at the meeting in tears and absolutely terrified for not my own well-being but that of my family I got up and answered the call. From that day forward I was groomed to become a preacher in the church. I was taught how to lead songs, pass communion, and work up a lesson and deliver it even learned to read a little bit of greek. The preachers made it clear that in order to get someone to believe a sermon you had to "sell" it and I became good enough at it to win state in public speaking in FFA my junior year in high school. I started having trouble with the church when I was researching lessons. We were taught in church that you did not take the preachers word as gospel until you read along with him and came to the same conclusion that he was getting at and if you didn't come to the same conclusion you were to question his word and study with other members about it to get to the true meaning. The problem was that I started to question some things we were being taught and when I started asking questions and seeking guidance I was simply told that the way we were taught was the way it was and if I didn't see it that way then I needed to reread and study until I came to the same conclusion. So the more I read the more questions I had until I figured out that everything I had been "taught" I had actually just been "sold". The more I questioned the less patient they became until one Sunday during deer season I missed church to help an uncle find a poorly hit deer and the following Sunday I was informed by our main preacher that since I committed the grievous sin of forsaking the assembly, I would no longer be allowed to participate in my normal church duties until I got up in front of the congregation and openly and publicly asked for their and God's forgiveness. When church started and it came to the invitation call he pointed me out to the congregation and told them the reason I had not been allowed to participate in my normal duties. He then proceeded to say "I believe that brother Davis has something he wants to say" and boy did I ever have something to say. I will not go into detail of what was said out loud in a quiet church but it was basically that they could stick thier hypocritic church and everyone in it where the sun doesn't shine and then I walked out. Walked down the street to a pay phone and called my Dad to come get me because I had driven my mother and grandmother to church. I've never darkened the doorway of another church save for funerals. And before you say that I shouldn't let one bad experience with church ruin my life you can save it because I've heard it all before. After leaving I went on a spiritual journey of my own trying to find answers to the questions I had and I believe I have found some of them and it doesn't align with anything a Christian church has to offer. Sorry for the novel but I thought I'd give a little background on myself so yall wouldn't think I just posted anti religious memes due to ignorance or lack of education on the subject. You may still think that but I don't care.

Religion only works well at controlling people when it inspires great fear and hope for great reward. Christianity was well designed by men to do just that. Christianity is being continuously tweaked to make it even more manipulative.

I just can't believe that God is insecure, petty, fickle and vindictive as he is portrayed in Christianity.

Keith

While I do agree that there are supernatural accounts (call them magic tricks if you want, are displayed on this thread) what are the "many" contradictory" beliefs you speak of; other than KeithC's comment at the first of this thread. There is nothing wrong with discussing perceived contradictions.

Funny the differences in how one sees scripture. I have never seen Jesus as insecure, petty, fickle, or vindictive.

I often wonder why non-believers comment on these kinds of threads.....I really don't understand it if their mind is already made up.

The above posts make me think a lot about where we are today as a world of human beings; and it certainly justifies and re-assurances my belief (which I believe is the absolute TRUTH) that Jesus Christ is the most anti-religious person to ever walk the face of the earth. Jesus could not stand religion; I dare say I think He hated it due to its divisiveness.

Take the comments on this thread for an example........Danny's, Jarhead's, Davisfur's, and KeithC's (my intention is not to offend, but rather trying to understand where you are coming from based on what you have written and believe previously)

Danny Clifton, who I respect immensely on this forum and value his thought across all boards trapping, hunting, fishing, and family; I believe is agnostic. He may very well believe in the supernatural, but he's just not sure about that Jesus Christ fellow and the so called "religion" of Christianity; or any others for that matter. He is open for other ideas and also researches and educates himself in what best fits his moral compass.

Jarhead on the other hand is a self spoken atheist; and I humbly appreciate his service to our nation and respect him very much. He does not believe that there is a God, or that any supernatural events take place. To him, everything must make sense both mathematically and scientifically. His rock is science and facts.

Davisfur's story is an unfortunate one that I know all too well; as I have been there. He was raised by "religion" rather than the Word of God. This is something still going on today in many of our protestant and southern Baptist churches.....sadly. The upside is, that I believe that many of them are turning around. We cannot condone sin; but goodness gracious when you walk out of the church house, we ought to feel better than when we walk in. I truly hope you read the Book of Matthew without blinders on and predisposed theology. Read it for what the Word says to you, not what some church house preacher says.

KeithC is a very interesting fellow indeed and very well versed on history and basic human nature. I think he believes and follows the Golden Rule indefinitely; however, he just sees a different aspect that we all may be able to learn from.

I for one, believe that Jesus Christ is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. I also believe He is 100% anti-religion. Jesus Christ did not come down to this earth and die on the cross for our sins to form any religion; which only separates and divides. He came down here to save mankind from the predicament we are in because of our sins.

That's how I see it, and I hope I did not offend anyone. Chancey

Literally everything is proof that God exists. Without God there would be nothing.

Overall, everything is good, including most people, so God is good. Also I think the act of creation itself is good.

I think we are made in God's image. Likely we are not made in God's physical image, but in his reasoning and trying image.

I don't know what God wants from us. It seems very unlikely that God wants our praise and blind obedience. If he wanted that he would have stopped with a dog like being. I think God likely wants us to be more like him.

I believe God used evolution, but knew how things were likely to turn out. I think he definitely created numerous master pieces for us to enjoy and appreciate.

I think we are all much more closely related and in some ways more of the same individual, with some differences, then we understand. I think most of us trappers probably share a huge amount of DNA. I think we are a type.

I think the best thing to do in regards to other people is to treat them well, but not thoughtlessly well. Jesus's commandment "Love thy neighbors as thyself." makes sense to a fairly high point. Past that point, I see nothing wrong with aggressively correcting or even fatally correcting some forms of behavior, such as theft, child molestation and unjustified homicide.

I am more curious about most things than most people. I have lots of disparate interests. I really look forward to meeting God and learning.

Keith

Very insightful Chauncey. I appreciate what you wrote and no offense taken. I do want to say that though I no longer attend church and have no interest in returning to one it does not mean I do not believe in a higher power. I just haven't made up my mind what that higher power is. I wholeheartedly believe in the supernatural and ghosts and such. Just don't believe that church is where I need to be to be in contact with a higher power. I am not an atheist. For the last few years I have been doing some studying on the beliefs of my ancestors before Christianity killed or converted them.

I don't feel that most of the posters that post what many call non-believers is really the case for those that write post many find anti-Christian. Millions of people may very well be strong believers and have deep roots in strong spiritual beliefs and don't need to be part of a traditional worship, church, synod or autocratic system. Especially if that church or persons in leadership were or are abusive, controlling and exhibiting behavior that they feel is not the spirituality they were seeking. Yes I do agree that we are all born to sin, but I also feel that if I work very hard on growing spiritually I won't practice hard to be better at sinning or believing that those that I disagree with are more sinful then I am. Having and creating a strong faith and belief and working a strong spiritual live style I feel is very freeing for many and to me that is part of what God's hope for me was to be more free and secure in my faith.

Bryce

I said God, not Jesus. Look at how God is portrayed in the Old Testament. Even New Testament God is not portrayed as kind. New Testament God needed appeased with his son's death.

Stan Lee wrote "With great power comes great responsibility". I believe God has incredible power and is therefore incredibly responsible for everything. I can't see how a responsible being like God, would create someone to suffer terribly, forever for any reason, much less for just not worshipping him and his son properly. I don't think God is that petty and vindictive. I think God is fantastically good.

Keith

Funny thing about all this talk of organized religion. Jesus did not profess organized religion. In fact his message was in opposition to the organized religion at the time. Many churches and denominations have added the organized parts of Christianity over 2000 years, but if you ignore all that and consider Jesus' original message, it has nothing to do with organized religion.

This is why many "organized" denominations of Christianity are in decline but the fastest growing and most successful churches of today are not organized and are focused solely on the original authority of the bible and Jesus.