I’d like to try making a gland lure of my own. I’m not asking for anyone’s formula, but just a little help to keep me from messing up. My plan was to use glands and urine and fish oil, as well as some extras. My question is with the oil/urine mixture. I had intended to use spoonbill oil bc that’s what I have and I have had good luck with it in other lures, but I have read here that it doesn’t play nicely with urine. Is that true of all fish oil, or just the spoonbill? I do have formulas in some of my books that list glands and urine and fish oil, but I have more that use either glands and urine and glycerin, or glands and fish oil without urine. If I shouldn’t use any fish oil in combination with urine, should I go without the fish oil and use glycerin instead, or go without the urine and use the fish oil?
Thanks for any help!
Matt

Urine will not blend well with certain ingredients also, I find using a drill to mix a batch is important to get even amounts in those bottles to be consistent once it settles in the bottle or jars. Your going to shake the bottle before using it at the set so it’s still the same lure make up it might even improve it if the ingredients are attractive on their own or together.

You could try to thicken it with corn starch or a food thickener also to get a across the board even blend into one consistently. Lots of different outcomes depending on the base you pick and the antifreeze choice your going with, lots of the top brand lures separate on the shelf just try to get it mixed when bottling is the trick.

I guess I should have been clearer in my question. I am not terribly concerned with the solubility of the urine with either the fish oil or the glycerin. My concern is that I have read on here previously that combining Spoonbill oil with urine caused excessive pressure to build up in the batch. While I’m not opposed to just shaking up the bottle before using it, I’d rather not have it blow up lol. I don’t know if this condition of gas build up is unique to Spoonbill oil, or if that is something that occurs when any fish oil (say trout oil) is mixed with coyote urine. ?
I do understand that the glycerin, or even alcohol, would give me much better solubility when mixed, and I don’t intend to not use one or the other just for the purpose of antifreeze. Either base, the fish oil or the glycerin will take on the smells of the other ingredients. I just feel that if I am going to add something to my urine and glands that will make up a large portion of the total volume, wouldn’t I want the added benefit of the fatty acid smell associated with the fish oil vs the benefit of better solubility associated with the glycerin?

Un finished lures get gassy when still breaking down yes, but fresh glands when used are preserved with sodium benzoate to stop the breakdown process and gas issues not sure how that comes into play with spoonbill oil never worked with it.

Thank you, Law Dog. I appreciate the help. The glands I have are fresh and preserved, but I had planned on adding zinc valerate just in case. The reaction I am concerned with is involving the oil and the urine. I was told that just 2 oz of the oil, mixed with 2 oz of the urine, would cause a reaction volatile enough to over flow a quart jar. That is specifically with the Spoonbill Oil, but I didn’t know if I could expect a sinus reaction with other fish oils.

Like Law Dog I've no experience with spoonbill oil, but gland lures I make myself with urine and fish oil together work fine. Trout oil, sun rendered salmon oil and pressed fish oils is what I use and they've given no issues. Just make sure your glands are preserved and stopped. I like trout oil the best of those mentioned by the way.
Hope this helps you some.

Oppossum1, that does help a great deal! Thank you! In fact, that’s exactly what I was hoping to hear, as trout was going to be my next choice.

Matt

It occurs as a reaction that is within seconds of mixing a certain ratio of fats with oil or urine

I put up fresh glands a few years ago they came out like puddy I even put them in a blender still pretty thick but workable.

So would it be safe to assume that the reason it doesn’t happen with all fish oils is due to a lower fat content?

Did you have my luck making them into something usable?

Mostly happens with glands and urine but i have had spoonbill do it

You better have a transfer container handy once you have that reaction beginning to work. It can over flow a bucket quickly depending upon the volume that you have in that container to allow for such a situation to occur.

Just imagine how you add baking soda to water and see how it reacts. Urine and some oils will do the same. But that is how you learn for the next time.

Bob, is there any benefit, in this regard, to the order in which the ingredients are mixed? For example, you can add acid to water but never water to acid..

They are usable just puddy like I was going for a cream that would be easier to work with at a set that was the issue. Just takes longer to get a gob on a stick to much or to little kind if problem I’ll try to blender them again.

If the ingredients are going to react once combined it won't matter as to the order in which they are blended. It will just begin slowly at first with gas bubbles occurring and the volcano lava will begin to rise. I have had my share of Mad scientist moments in my lifetime early on.

Look up Seldom Fails on YouTube. He has several short videos of him testing coyote glands and gland lure. There's some interesting things to see. Most interesting is how coyotes react to straight coyote glands.

Seldom Fales is the channel name.

Thank you, Yes Sir and Seldom. Seldom, I’ve watched your channel quite a bit. I quite enjoy it. It’s very informative and interesting, to say the least. I understand why you don’t name the name of lures you test that only get mediocre responses at times in your area, but I do often wish you would name the names of lures that elicited great responses. I’d love to send you one I made and passed around a bit to test, but I’m sure you are overrun with those kind of requests! Thank you for the work you put into helping the rest of us understand “why”
Matt

Lot's to learn from those videos.

Hello Matt, I don't name lures or manufacturers regardless whether they work or not for two reasons. First and foremost there is considerable cost for me to purchase the scents and then of course the obtaining permission to test and cost to place and check the tests. My tests are a serious value to me not just the $$ outlay but the learning experience is priceless to me so I give away nothing with such a value to me. The 2nd reason is just because a scent doesn't work for me doesn't mean it won't perform great for someone else across the country and I will not damage a manufacturers reputation or their product. If trappers want to know how well a scent works, they should test it themselves in their territory. In fact, that is the main purpose behind for me publishing the testing videos so others may put forth the $$ and effort to test.

There is only one reason why I do tell manufacturers names and the scent's names and that's when they furnish me with the scent, such as you see me telling which scents of Ed Schneider's products I used. Ed was the only scent manufacturer that wanted to help me "learn" gland lure use. I told him I would publish his good performers as well as I would any that were poor ones.

My testing videos are there for the viewer to judge whether the scents were good or poor but also to observe the coyote's body language and foot placement to the test/scent.

Thank you very much Paul, that means a lot to me as it did when you reopend my account.

Do you guys like a very mild coyote gland lure smell or one that explodes when you open the jar? It seems that a home made coyote gland that a human can definitely smell coyote would creat interest aplenty. Reason I ask is that I made some from last years glands not rotted but just a bit aged and added bladder urine. It smells like the back end of a coyote to me.

IMHO, you won’t know the answer until you test the lures under a camera! Forget about what humans smell or think, get it 1st hand from the coyotes! I’ve heard it said by super-well known trappers that gland lures scare coyotes. That is absolutely correct based on my testing/observations BUT not all of them. I’ve observed coyotes turning themselves inside-out to get away from a gland lure test!

That being said, I have found that there are some gland lures that create a great deal of interest/attraction without urine and without scaring the bejesus out of the coyote! Make your lures do that or find one that does is my advice!

Best advice ever given to any trapper is in the first 2 sentence in Seldom's post above.

By chance Seldom was the gland that spooked the coyotes aged gland based ? I get much better responses from fresh gland. A well known lure maker ounce told me the closest thing a coyote has smelled with aged gland is a road kill. My testing in September are different than in November, especially with gland.

That’s sort of what I meant with my Kentucky colloquialism. I didn’t really mean does the human like the smell. When I said like I meant which way, fresh or fully broken down. This one I’ll be trying is not rank but rather a plain coyote smell. I’ve smelled several over the years and ones coyote gland smells quite different than others. But, they all must have success to some degree.

I've seen both spook coyotes. My theory is glands represents a coyote being there. It would be like you walking along out in the woods by your self and another person steps out of no where 4 foot in front of you. Coyotes smell another coyote but can't see it. Urine represents another coyote HAD been there. Just my 2 cents from what I've seen.

And as far as them all having success to some degree, that might be correct but some degrees are surprisingly low. That's why I implore everyone to test. I promise you it will open your eyes.

In my experience testing fresh gland gets attention from adults , YOY coyotes leave. Tainted is a different story. From what Iv'e seen in snow some coyotes spook at anything out of the norm. Some jump right on it. Most gland lures have urine in the formula along with other musks. The best I make is a mix of coyote, red fox and mink. They don't know what to do first.

Gary are these straight glands, your own formulations or commercial lures?I think a lot of commercial formulations use enough other secondary odors in their gland lures that the glands become a secondary odor themselves. And with some of those ingredients be artificial; my experience is that will also lead to some shyness from some coyotes

X2
I've had(under camera) coyotes (YOY??) turn themselves inside-out to get away when encountering just urine, urine advertised as being from the big, old dogs! My testing with the cameras has made me a pure skeptic of scent products amymore. Why would anyone wanting to catch ALL coyotes that are attracted to a set use a scent that only allows a percentage of them to be caught and chases others away???? I have always figured/assumed that many of these trappers have such a large population to work with that there are enough agressive coyotes to fill in the voids left by the percent that are afraid of a scent so it's an unknown, non-issue.

X2
I've had(under camera) coyotes (YOY??) turn themselves inside-out to get away when encountering just urine, urine advertised as being from the big, old dogs! My testing with the cameras has made me a pure skeptic of scent products amymore. Why would anyone wanting to catch ALL coyotes that are attracted to a set use a scent that only allows a percentage of them to be caught and chases others away???? I have always figured/assumed that many of these trappers have such a large population to work with that there are enough agressive coyotes to fill in the voids left by the percent that are afraid of a scent so it's an unknown, non-issue.
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Seldom, have you witnessed similar experiences with other types of lures, say food lures or curiosity lures?

No, no expression or body language representing a fear response. The negative response I've seen with many many lures/baits/scents I've tested is either a lackadaisical approach and very minimal working of the scent(light scratching,etc) or they just plain ignore them. I've only seen fear or repulsion with gland lures and a few instances with urine though I never got into testing urine and the times I used urine at a test site was stuff I'd had on hand. I don't have any of that urine anymore btw!

Seldom has been good enough to post a bunch of his videos of coyotes working gland lures on YouTube if anyone wants to see some of this stuff for themselves

Very interesting. Thanks Seldom. I to video a lot of coyotes and a few working lures and baits plus old sets after season. I haven’t seen much of the fear response but since I’m always on location I have see a bunch of them just ignoring the smells.
My question is time of year? And age of the coyotes showing the fear response to the gland lure? I find this very interesting.
Most of the camera work I do is after season through spring.

Hi ya Yote, long time no hear!
That year I started testing gland lures on 2/24 and finished on 6/1. I tested 10 coyote gland lures and 2 fox gland lures. 4 coyote gland lures proved to be very attractive and no coyote ever showed any indication of fear or leeriness and readily approached the tests. Also their body language was interpreted as relaxed during their visit.

The other 6 coyote gland lures had all coyotes either showing no attraction to the lure or exhibited obvious leeriness to approach the tests. Literally the opposite reactions as the 4! BTW, whenever I saw no attraction shown to a test I always used to a weather app to show me what direction the wind was suppose to be at that hour of the coyote at the test site.

All coyotes were highly attracted to the 2 red fox gland lures.

One coyote gland lure was always ignored by coyote but the bobcats couldn’t get enough of it.

As I’ve stated before, I never give out names of lure manufacturers but I will make an exception this one time. One of the 4 “good” coyote gland lures was from Stef Forget who is no longer in business. Several times people actually walked on the piece of wood I had the lure on but the coyotes loved it. The coyotes continued to visit this test for over a month regardless of several heavy rains and crapped on the test the morning I pulled the camera. I realize that once you get coyotes pissing they will return and continue but I had no idea that they would continue for so long.

Seldom,
There is another company selling his lures in Quebec now. I have one of his coyote lures that I purchased through the new company but it does not appear to be a gland lure.

All fresh gland ground and preserved with real Loveage from Nick W. I purchased 20 years ago. Half of the batch I added Asaf. tincture to, doesn't seem to attract as well. I use both to make um pee and as a pacifier. Made some this summer with otter in it after seeing coyote tracks around otter toilets. We'll see I guess.
Seldom is spot on, Red Fox gland angers some coyotes and gets attention from all age groups. I do most of my testing without cameras during season with traps buried with snow cover.
Seldom makes another point with the population thing. High pop. more competition , more aggression. Lower pop. more caution. I try to appeal to all. This ain't Kansas LOL.. Dang coyotes anyway

Yup, that’s right Matt but I’ve never seen where he’s making gland lures. Woulda-coulda-shoulda bought more of Stef’s before he soldout! LOL

Before I started testing gland lures what Gary and Yes Sir are talking about was on my mind. I didn’t and still don’t care specifically what’s in folks gland lures, that’s their business, part of the lure’s value but I do care that many don’t work as well as others. I wanted to know which ones were more attractive than others, how the coyote’s approached a gland lure, and where they put their feet.

Once I started testing more questions came to mind along the lines of ingredients which of course directly affects the attract-ability of the lure. For instance, why would a lure manufacturer sell a “coyote” gland lure that coyotes repeatedly found unattractive but bobcats would literally stand in line to rub and roll like there was no tomorrow and continue to return to rub some more? I have a video showing a pair of bobcats working a coyote gland lure test in that manner. The male starts working the test and the female is forced to wait her turn and you can watch her anxiety build as she is loosing patience to take her turn. A fun thing for me to watch but it should be a worrisome one as well. The first question that came to my mind was what was the manufacturer thinking by adding an ingredient that made the lure performed that way?

For decades I’ve been a proponent of testing all lures and baits before a trapper uses it. How would you like to buy a coyote gland lure from a reputable lure manufacturer and not know it doesn’t attract coyotes at all but rather bobcats, or the lure frightens coyotes, or the coyotes find the lure just plain unattractive?

I don’t mess with coyotes much but here are some thoughts on fox. I apologize for the infomercial on my hat...lol.

https://youtu.be/25sTeuDY9QY

Thanks I enjoyed the video

Interesting thread to a first year trapper