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. #7400313
11/09/21 01:02 AM
11/09/21 01:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
.

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 11/14/21 08:37 PM.
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7401773
11/10/21 09:59 PM
11/10/21 09:59 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 10,726
SW Georgia
Pretty good representation. Once you get it down it takes no time at all. I use the hammer to beat the ground in for my levers. Works the same.
Is it for everyone? No. But if you want a just about guaranteed set that will work after a torrential downpour for a day or so, then this set is it.

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7402539
11/11/21 07:24 PM
11/11/21 07:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,930
E central Il
G
Golf ball Offline
trapper
Golf ball  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,930
E central Il
I use a round jawed trap and a tile spade to cut a funnel shaped hole , some times I can pound out a depression for my springs . My ground is usually pretty wet come season , some of my dirt is mushy when wet and pounding on it does not produce the desired affect. That same dirt when it’s dry crumbles bad when you try to pound on it .
Everyone needs to figure out what works best for their ground , Zagger uses an ax to chop his beds out of sod and uses a square jawed trap . I could not make a very good bed for an MB 650 that way.

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7402860
11/12/21 06:47 AM
11/12/21 06:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Man, nothing against that video and the sharing but I do it VASTLY different than that, and to me, MUCH MUCH quicker. Heck, I can make the whole Pipe Dream Set in a few short minutes.....one of my classes timed me this fall and I think it was under five minutes, I don't recall. In fairness, I've made a million of them!

Yes, I use a Pulaski Axe to dig my bed. One of the MANY MANY benefits of the Jake trap is (in this VERY specific case) that it truly is "square jawed" The jaws have four 90-degree turns in them. Other "square-jawed" trap have jaws that angle up and inwards from the jaw posts......not a big deal as more are shaped that way than the design of the Jake.

BUT....I can swing four hard swings and POP out a plug of sod that is square, and most of my work is done. And it takes five seconds.

In the end, everyone needs to adapt the bedding to the trap THEY use........ BUT, best advice I can give you is this:

First, find ONE trap style and size you like and use ONLY that trap and get rid of everything else.......ever heard of muscle memory?

Second, ALWAYS dig the initial bed SMALLER than that trap and then pound OUT the inside walls to let your trap barely fit into the bed you dug........once trap is in place, use your hammer to pound the sod BACK IN towards the traps to pinch it in place. Do NOT dig a bed larger than your trap and try to recreate what Ma Nature already gave you.

Mark Zagger


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7403618
11/13/21 12:12 AM
11/13/21 12:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
Thanks for chiming in Mark. Like a lot of youtube videos of people trying to pass off info they only think they know, they don't often get it right.

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: ~ADC~] #7403665
11/13/21 01:39 AM
11/13/21 01:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
.

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 11/14/21 08:38 PM.
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Zagman] #7403670
11/13/21 01:45 AM
11/13/21 01:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
.

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 11/14/21 08:38 PM.
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7403674
11/13/21 01:53 AM
11/13/21 01:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,173
nwpa
F
furstroker Offline
trapper
furstroker  Offline
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F

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,173
nwpa
Wow. Are you sure? ... questioning Mr. coyote slayer from the worst trapping conditions ever? Wolfie, until you venture outta the south...hush bubba.

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: furstroker] #7403701
11/13/21 03:18 AM
11/13/21 03:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
.

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 11/14/21 08:38 PM.
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7403703
11/13/21 03:35 AM
11/13/21 03:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
.

Last edited by Wolfdog91; 11/14/21 08:39 PM.
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7403849
11/13/21 10:26 AM
11/13/21 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 225
PA
Charles2 Offline
trapper
Charles2  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 225
PA
In the video above, I believe a solid trap bed was made with elements used in PD set, but with subtle differences. The trap bed was larger than the original . I think the MZ uses a tight bed outline and hammer compression around the jaws to tighten the trap bed. MZ is quicker and does use different tools, but he also has made this thousands of times. It is HIS design. As a trapper , I am not going to make a carbon copy of any set or use the same tools. I will use what I have, in the conditions I have, in a way that works for me. MZ deigned the set for the wet and frozen NE conditions he lives in and has used it elsewhere. As an example, I may have difficulty using this set in loose sandy terrain. No amount of hammer pounding will keep the sand compacted for long. The screen and pipe however will work exactly the same. This is a GREAT set and I use it successfully. I appreciate MZ for sharing his concept and look forward to adapting it to each trap location I want to use it in.


Charles2Trap
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7404034
11/13/21 02:56 PM
11/13/21 02:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
Originally Posted by Wolfdog91
Originally Posted by ~ADC~
Thanks for chiming in Mark. Like a lot of youtube videos of people trying to pass off info they only think they know, they don't often get it right.

You sure about that ? Compared to like 80% of videos showing the pipe dream this guy's is one of the few who actually beds the traps some what the manner it should be.


Yes I am absolutely sure. You just said yourself 80% got it wrong. This guy got it wrong too. If Mark says he is doing it wrong, who would question that? He invented it FCOL.

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: ~ADC~] #7404208
11/13/21 07:07 PM
11/13/21 07:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
M
Mac Offline
trapper
Mac  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
ADC wrote:
"Yes I am absolutely sure. You just said yourself 80% got it wrong. This guy got it wrong too. If Mark says he is doing it wrong, who would question that? He invented it FCOL."

I wrote a three or four paragraph response to this original post and then decided not to post.
Must be getting kinder and gentler in my old age.

Mac



Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7404237
11/13/21 07:58 PM
11/13/21 07:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,483
Nebraska
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8uFmU3yanY

Here ya go Wolfie. This is how Mark Z. does it. Go to 19:45 of the video and he shows his style.

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Mac] #7404279
11/13/21 08:24 PM
11/13/21 08:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
Originally Posted by Mac
ADC wrote:
"Yes I am absolutely sure. You just said yourself 80% got it wrong. This guy got it wrong too. If Mark says he is doing it wrong, who would question that? He invented it FCOL."

I wrote a three or four paragraph response to this original post and then decided not to post.
Must be getting kinder and gentler in my old age.

Mac


Shoot me a PM Mac, maybe I'm wrong here. ?

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: ~ADC~] #7404564
11/14/21 09:44 AM
11/14/21 09:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
M
Mac Offline
trapper
Mac  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,717
Maine
ADC, you are spot on my friend.

Mac



Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7404642
11/14/21 12:08 PM
11/14/21 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 16,261
Iowa
Thanks for the confirmation Mac. I thought I knew what I was talking about but I've been surprised before. lol

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7405061
11/14/21 08:39 PM
11/14/21 08:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline OP
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,775
Amite county Mississippi
You guys are right I take back what I said

Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7405440
11/15/21 07:39 AM
11/15/21 07:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 655
Central New York State
I didn't see what you said but I am a big boy! LOL I guess I am about speed and efficiency and perhaps because that gentleman is self-filming it took a LOT longer than it would take me.

A solidly-bedded trap is critical with this set, as a coyote of fox may come in the wrong way (due to wind) but once they get a taste (assuming you are using something they want MORE of) they will go round and round that pipe. If your trap if operative and solidly bedded you have a very good chance of catching that animal.

We have videos and pics of coyotes and fox working on a pipe (no trap) for 2-3-5-7 minutes. They go around the pipe as they try to pull the pipe from the ground and take it somewhere for themselves. When they do this, they pull up with their mouth and neck and push DOWN with their feet like a guy doing pushups.....and I think I often get catches on nights of half-frozen or snow-covered sets because of this action or reaction .

If a coyote has, let's say, five pounds of downward pressure while standing erect (I am guessing) what does that number of pounds of pressure DOWN turn into when pulling UP with the pipe in his mouth?

In the end, while I introduced this to the world in 2012 or 2013, the set was a NUMBER of things brought together for what I called the Pipe Dream Set. And, I KNEW that trappers being trappers, a LOT of guys would change it or tweak it or re-engineer it to their liking or justification. I know a lure maker/social media person "changed" it to their justification by adding poke holes in the ground around the pipe and adding different lures to get more foot movement. The whole idea was to get the stink ABOVE ground, so this seems counterintuitive to me.......but perhaps its sells more lure? LOL

This is how I do it:

Deep bed for holding ground water (some of you may NOT have that issue....we dig a dirt hole hear and water follows the auger out of the hole!) BTW, I do NOT use a pattern or sod cutter to make my bed, I do it with a Pulaski axe and actually believe I could do it blind-folded! LOL)

Smaller bed than trap and then HAMMER out to squeeze trap in, but trap is "up top" with levers on top of the ground (slightly countersunk with hammer blows to top of sod). Trap is NOT in bottom of bed touching dirt and/or water

Hammer top of sod INWARDS to pinch trap in place

Steel screen cover to hold up grass material and let water go THROUGH without pan cover collapsing and just looking odd

Grass, chopped hay used VERY lightly to cover trap and screen. Guys use too much! I can see the trap and screen if I look close. On my Jake traps a pinch of grass the size of an egg but no more than a tennis ball is all you need

Grey electrical conduit (I like one inch INSIDE diameter) 9-10 inches long driven into grass tuft out of view. Only 2-3 inches should stick out, and I angle the pipe slightly toward the trap bed.

Bait/lure it with something they like the taste of and want more of......you want them there for seven minutes, not seven seconds.

That's it......I can do this set in a few minutes, because I need to get down the road and do it 50-75 more times. Nothing wrong with a slower approach or taking longer. I've perfected the tools I need to do it quickly and this is what works for me. In the end, if it works for you, then you are doing it right.

MZ

Last edited by Zagman; 11/15/21 07:41 AM.

Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: Properly bedding a trap for the Pipe Dream set [Re: Wolfdog91] #7405477
11/15/21 08:24 AM
11/15/21 08:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,922
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Does anyone use the pipe concept but with a more traditional trap bed? I ask because I have a hundred gallons on was dirt/sand ready to go.

Thanks for all of the information. Zagman, I watched your video. You have a beautiful place and trap some beautiful country.

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