I was reading the gland lure post and must say a lot of good thinking in those pages. It got me thinking. I do a lot of videos of my lure and bait test sites. I found that dug-out holes and a lot of tracks do do not tell the whole story. Neither does catches. Yes, it shows if the lure is good, but much is not seen. I am thinking of a video that I show the folks at the Trapping and Snaring school when we are talking about scents and baits. I had a lure out for tests that were doing good with being dug out and worked, so I put a camera on it to watch body behavior. Within 2 nights grey fox was working it and I was happy happy happy. Then a grey fox came into the set. The video shows the grey getting a whiff of the scent, walking over to the set, putting its nose to the scent and it was like it was hit by an electric fence LOL I never saw a fox jump straight up and turn and get out so fast as that one. After that, other greys came into the set and showed positive reactions. What happened???? I don't know, but I know that grey didn't like what the others liked.

Or, maybe there was an outside influence, a sound maybe, completely unrelated to the scent or set that put the fear of God in it.

Having worked with hundreds of bird dogs for many years I often relate back to those experiences in my canine trapping pursuits. That group of dogs as a whole were very much a like kind as a general rule in that they all loved the business of hunting birds - the similarities stopped right there. Each and every one of those dogs had it's own personality with a WIDE range of traits and character when run in the field under similar circumstances, ranging from shy to bold, happy-go-lucky to laser focused, fast paced to slow paced, eager-to-please to independent, and the comparative list goes on. No two dogs were exactly alike - similar in many ways, but never exactly the same, including their reactions to game and game scents they each encountered in the field. Encounter a coon scent for example and one dog might instantly take up the trail whereas another will be curious about the scent and cautiously investigate, and yet a third will instantly avoid the scent upon acknowledging it's presence. I learned early on in the bird dog training endeavors that I was dealing with independent thinking dogs and not robots. Put on a "bird dog traits" bell curve chart one would likely see the typical "middle" group of preferred bird dogs being the largest class when all said and done. That being said, I would expect to see what you guys are experiencing with the coyote reactions to the gland lure testing - question is, what ingredients put more of those coyotes in the "middle" group? Only the camera testing you guys are recommending can offer up that answer. Great topic.

Excellent point. there is the whole world going around the outside of that camera's focus. Possible coyote nearby that they caught the scent of or a bobcat. possible a person may have been strolling through the area checking a trailcam..a german shephard that ventured out for a stroll. possibilitys are endless.

yes, and the point is we have no idea what happens and why, but human behavior is to draw a conclusion from the one negative that we see. how many times have we heard or maybe we even say our self. even though we may have caught 10 animals on that one scent then we miss 3 the statement is the scent doesn't work. I had a deer hunter using my scent for years killed many deer. then he had a good buck react negatively to it one time and he stopped using it.

Human nature to see or believe what it is we want to believe. I love watching and talking animals reactions to lures, baits and sets. Lots of theories out there, some have merit some not so much.

Even with viewing videos there can and will be different takes on what is being seen. The first time I had my channel up (I removed my channel once and than reopened it for a 2nd time) and published testing videos I got quite a few different interpretations of what was being seen. Some viewers would reply that “boy, you would’ve caught that one” or “that coyote really liked that lure” and I’m thinking just the opposite! LOL

During the last 15 years of my career in welding I was a non-degreed Welding Engr and one of my key job responsibilities was to perform as a trained observer. In simple terms that means I was trained to search visually beyond the obvious when trouble shooting welder, weld, or weldment failures/problems in the operation environment. Sort of like seeing the trees for the forest but also seeing the branches, the leaves, and maybe the bug on the leaf.

When deciphering videoed coyote lure and bait testing responses I don’t know if what I did in welding, helps or hinders me in making response determinations because of the tendency to see and think maybe too deep. I really don’t dwell on it and do not debate differences of opinion because all that really matters is what each person thinks they see and they determine whether or not what they see is a value to them.

I just thought of a pertinent circumstance to my previous reply that happened when I first started testing gland lures under the cameras. While I was setting up the test sites I got the idea of using a rotten stick about 1.5" in diameter at a gland lure test. I was testing 2 lures within the vision of the camera so just stuck the sticking the ground on a little slant so it stuck up about 8" and added gland lure toward the bottom. This test site was on the edge of a filter strip (heavy sod) and a plowed field. I had 2 different test sites going so I added a stick to one of those lures as well.

I left the cards in for 10 nights, pulled, and replaced them. While watching the videos I saw what I determined was a different body language occurring at the lures with the sticks as compared to a body language of avoidance at the stick-less, tests. I determined that the body language of coyotes near the test lures with sticks told me they were focusing on the stick first and foremost and it was obvious to me they did not like the sticks at all and avoided the test lures. I went back that day after viewing the results and pulled the sticks and reapplied the lures on the sod clump the sticks were placed in.

The next 10 night testing proved to me that without the sticks the coyotes reacted to the lures after I removed the visual stimuli of the stick. There are a couple of studies that tested different sizes of visual stimuli using coyotes in familiar and unfamiliar territory compared to scent attractant alone. I can't tell anyone which if any of the coyotes I videoed at those tests were a residents or travelers but the difference in the coyote's reactions to me was obvious and the change that occured once the sticks were removed.

Viewers of those videos did not recognize the stuble difference. I did have a couple of trappers during discussion tell me that isn't what really happened yet never viewed my video and one told me that I'd used the stick wrong and should have set the stick off to the side 6'-10' and more coyotes would be interested in the lure.

I'm always looking for new lure and bait ingredients. I came across an ingredient from a reputable dealer that I'd never tried and intrigued me. It had a video of an animal responding to this product and I thought great they've tested it and have proof. Definitely will help me with the decision to purchase it for testing. Well the video Definitely helped, I didn't buy any. The video was of one fox stopping by the test set for about 2 seconds and then proceeding about his business without any other kind of response. Had to ask myself why this company thought that was a good enough respond to use that as advertisement. What was funny I was talking with a friend who makes lures also and he mentioned this same product and asked if I had seen the video. He had the same feeling after watching the video. If I mentioned the name of the company a lot of people would come to their defense but I would have to wonder if they know what a really good response is. I hate to be pessimistic but if the arrow points that way I feel I need to follow.

With today's trail cameras aviability every lure maker should have at least 10 or 15 animal responses to each product available for customers to view. The good and not so good responses as my experience has taught me there's usually an animal or two for whatever reason that doesn't respond to every lure like most do for whatever reason. I think it would maybe even be helpful to the lure maker. Some say they do or have tested on camera put don't show it to the public yet don't hesitate to market their products every other way they can and every chance they get. Catch pictures are a good start but ive caught coyotes with commercial products that ended up not testing too well in side by side tests with other formulations.

X2

Well there prolly will be now LOL.. When I speak with a new to me lure maker, I ask him or her one question. Will your lures stop every passing coyote if it smells it. If they answer yes I walk away... Don't get me wrong there are some that are a cut above the rest but after testing different lures especially gland type it ain't happnin. Forget who it was that told me years ago but he said if ya catch 1 of out of 6 that encounter your set you're doing great. I never have settled for that. Like GWG stated above all canines/coyotes are different and the same.

Got another question for you guys running cams,, What time frame do you see the most activity with coyotes and is that time common with other species?? I know that's 2 LOL

LOL! Nope, they’ll never do it because if they did I personally wouldn’t take their word for it anyway and have to still verify that it met my expectations in my part of the country, on my trapping properties, not in PA or SD or TX. After decades of testing call lures and baits without cameras and now with cameras I’d say they’d be shooting themselves in the foot if they “bared it all”. As it is the write-ups and descriptions of the products will make you think they’re the next best thing since sliced bread and people can make videos appear to do the same! I know because I’ve been accused of editing my channel testing videos. LOL. Way too many have not met my expectations for what I’m looking for and in my opinion, failed testing miserably. Again, it’s my expectations, time & $$ that I’m concerned with and nobody else's!

I’ve seen so many catch photos and testimonials of lures and baits that have failed my testing over the years to make me a skeptic of all! As an additional thought, the scent manufacturer's products would have to see a $$ increase due to then added cost of equipment and labor making the videos. They have the business and product the burden lies I believe on the trapper to ensure what he buys works to his expectations and it appears we can all have different expectations. That's the very reason I started publishing testing videos was for only one reason and for one reason only and that was to show trappers examples why they should test their lures & baits before using them.

Here’s a recent example of the last baits I tested.- I purchased 4 baits from a maker out east and he sent along a call lure as a bonus. I tested all 5 and 4 failed miserably but the 1 bait tested super and was used on the line where it did very well when mathematically compared to the others being used and the combos I used it with. I am probably done testing call lures, baits, and gland lures unless I feel bored and decide to continue work with the grubstakes more.

I forgot to answer your question Gary. I pay no attention to time with my testing videos. The wife got after me to do a better job of setting the time & date. LOL

The one thing I can tell you is most times the critter knows the camera came on, especially ir's. Some years back I was using the cameras on 5 rapid shots. covered about 5 to 7 seconds total. In the first pic the critter is looking at the camera, the next to last 3 would be the critter smelling or looking at the scent. I went to video to get more, and what I saw was the critters getting out of dodge after they look at the camera LOL Then once they got used to the camera in a day or two they would work the scents. I show a video at the school of a fox that I was hired to catch, it was managed real bad so it could be ID very easy. I had the vid camera on the scent and bait. The fox came into the site walked over to the bait and lure smelled the spot and left in maybe 10 seconds. About an hour later that fox came back got the bait and stood there chewing the meat and swallowed then went to the scent dug at it and marked the spot. I ask a question when I am doing baiting and luring talks, and the question is, how long is a critter hungry after it leaves the den for the night? The answer is till it eats it first meal, then rest of the night it does whatever it wants to. Just doing what critters do. After watching a ton of critters firsthand in my 40 years as a wildlife control specialist. Watching critters work sets and sometimes the customer is standing there next to me and seeing the critter walk off just because, only to come back later and get caught. The customer always say to me when the critter walks away, the baits don't work!!! I tell them lets just wait to see

Seldom, if you do any testing with grubstakes please let me know I'll send ya some stuff that will make a difference. Maybe LOL

Ive got 20 sets in on 6 locations, half are grubstakes no dirt holes. I'll keep ya posted thru our phones.

Here is one that I have noticed here in my area here in the northeast on times. The coyotes here when they appear on the camera within the first few hours of darkness, they are skidiss and cautious. after 12 midnight they appear more tolerant and from 3 am on they are calm. we notice the same thing when calling at night. in my area, there is a lot of human activity at night. I don't think they have a watch LOL but I think when human activity slows and stops they will calm down.

Good info Jonesie , Thanks

Just curious, what kind of response are you looking for at a grubstake? Animal to come to and investigate since the smell is above ground or are you wanting it to grab and pull it out of the ground?

I enjoyed playing with cameras years ago.

Was frustrating with the clunky technology 15-20 years ago. But saw some cool stuff too.

I just don’t have the time.

I make a lot of my own bait and lure. Have no desire to ever sell any or go into business.

I do all my “testing” with a trap out front. If it catches a lot of coyotes, it’s a “good one”.

Testing with a just the stink on a stick is all fine. But I feel adding the trap adds a whole new dynamic to the entire situation. You’re there longer making the set, more human scent. There’s the smell and feel of disturbed, loose soil. There’s the smell of the trap. Etc etc.

Good smells create enough intrigue to make the animal overcome any red flags it may have about the situation.