Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7430017
12/12/21 11:48 PM
12/12/21 11:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Kansas
Pawnee
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2017
Kansas
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Never tried wax Sand but I intend to in the near future
Everything the left touches it destroys
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7430075
12/13/21 02:03 AM
12/13/21 02:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
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The issue I have is surface tension the water sits on top of the waxed sand making the set easier to find it looks unnatural to me, I’m sure it evaporates over time but the impact is at the worst time to be standing out. IMO
Try sifting dirt on a very windy day hold the sifter high enough to let the “baby powder“ dirt blow away and the courser dirt fall into your containers. That’s the best all around dirt you can make.
Last edited by Law Dog; 12/13/21 02:07 AM.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7430312
12/13/21 12:02 PM
12/13/21 12:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
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Blending here is easy windswept and sunny most of the time so a simple drag of the sifter for top dirt and your blended. The issue I’m talking about is the evening dew collecting on top of your sets and not being able to soak into the soil because the wax won’t allow it.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Law Dog]
#7430910
12/14/21 12:07 AM
12/14/21 12:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2021
Wisconsin
Average Joe
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2021
Wisconsin
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Same thing happens with freeze-thaw conditions. Puddle forms in the day or saturates your top layer of natural dirt and then you get an ice pancake on top of your trap at night. Challenge is trying to keep your pan as a relatively low spot but not so much so to allow a puddle when things get wet. Got nearly a foot of snow last weekend, now 50 degrees and rain predicted this week, then followed by more cold. Challenging times for footholds. Wax dirt isn’t perfect but so far is the best I’ve found to stay in the game. Hoping for some consistent cold soon to leave a layer of fluffy snow on top.
I’ve been sayin yes sir all day at work, I’ve been sayin yes ma’am at home…
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7431957
12/15/21 06:38 AM
12/15/21 06:38 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
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The last thing ya want with waxed dirt or sand is a low spot over the pan.. I bed the trap and make the area over the pan higher so the water runs off. I'll even make a drain off with my fingers. Or bed the trap on a slight angle. They step right on the high spot. Ya don't need but a dusting to top coat to help blending. Mulched leaves, dead grass, or whatever is at the set site to blend the set. With a 4 coiled trap it'll bust right thru until it gets cold and stays cold then just snow to blend. As long as the paw breaks the crust your golden. The coyotes I trapped yesterday were planted 11/25 thru 2 rain events with temps in the mid 20s that night. No problemo... There is a fine line between too much and just enough top coat.
Last edited by trappergbus; 12/15/21 06:41 AM.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7431963
12/15/21 07:02 AM
12/15/21 07:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
Zagman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
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Freeze-thaw-rain-ice is the problem with ANY bedding material. Once it get below freezing and stays there with any NEW moisture being snow, ANY thing works, including plain or bone-dry dirt with no wax on it.
Waxed dirt OR sand is NOT maintenance-proof during these freeze-thaw-rain-ice days...........if you've used it, you see that "pancake" of crust on top from rain or dew. Sure, a coyote should bust through that with his weight AND if using a good trap, the trap SHOULD come up through as well. But, I found myself on my hands and knees addressing that pancake during the crappy times and it was FAR from maintenance-free.
Therefore, I sat back on day and thought: Why the heck am I spending all this time and effort AND money to make something that is NOT bullet-proof. Plus, like others say above, I did feel the need to top coat it with local material. This isn't the arid west, this is the Amazon jungle with high moisture amounts that often freeze. Top-coating is a delicate balance and its easy to put TOO much on top. Now you have the waxed-dirt pancake AND frozen local material. Yes, coyotes SHOULD break through that combined-crust, but you might miss some fox. But you might be missing coyotes as well......
Therefore, I went 100% to dry peat moss or grass coverings. Other than adding salt, they require, IMO, less maintenance during those crappy times. If snow is coming I do NOT top-coat the peat.....but if its just rain, I lightly top-coat and salt.
One year, I made 800 gallons of waxed sand. Took 10 years off of my life! Once it was gone, I never went back. That effort MAY being swaying my opinion a bit!
I've caught plenty of coyotes on waxed dirt and/or waxed sand. I caught plenty-more on peat and/or grass coverings. Easier, cheaper, less maintenance, etc. pushed me to that long-term plan of attack.
MZ
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7431989
12/15/21 08:06 AM
12/15/21 08:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
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We all have our favored techniques that fit our conditions. I agree that nothing is 100 percent bullet proof and soil types vary, that variance determines the top coat. Clay type less than loamy stuff. I've gone too just enough grass/duff that you can still see the different color of the sand. Like you do with screen. I will try peat next season, just have never been able to wrap my brain around it. I use mostly flat sets and blind trail sets is the reason. I'd rather cut my hands off than dig a hole LOL.. Now that prices have dropped it's probably a good time to open my brain a bit. When I used grass with screen I saw some avoidance that disappeared when I went back to waxed sand. Can't prove it was that tho, could have just been the mood they were in. I'l be trying that again too. We had a nice blending rain last night, sets are lookin pretty, good luck today Mark. tight chains 
Last edited by trappergbus; 12/15/21 08:10 AM.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: trappergbus]
#7432016
12/15/21 08:37 AM
12/15/21 08:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
Zagman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
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We all have our favored techniques that fit our conditions. I agree that nothing is 100 percent bullet proof and soil types vary, that variance determines the top coat. Clay type less than loamy stuff. I've gone too just enough grass/duff that you can still see the different color of the sand. Like you do with screen. I will try peat next season, just have never been able to wrap my brain around it. I use mostly flat sets and blind trail sets is the reason. I'd rather cut my hands off than dig a hole LOL.. Now that prices have dropped it's probably a good time to open my brain a bit. When I used grass with screen I saw some avoidance that disappeared when I went back to waxed sand. Can't prove it was that tho, could have just been the mood they were in. I'l be trying that again too. We had a nice blending rain last night, sets are lookin pretty, good luck today Mark. tight chains  I get it....I struggled with peat for years, but then sat back and witnessed FAR better trappers than me using ONLY peat. One year, I decided this was the year: I am going to 100% peat or grass.....no waxed products. I just muscled through it. In the end, that was the very first year I was able to break 100 coyotes in New York. I ended up with 125 that year........and I had to admit that the peat caused me no problems, quite the contrary. For anyone that does NOT know, I am not trapping in a place with low rainfall or snowfall amounts....quite the contrary. I am off the southeast end of Lake Ontario and 1000 feet higher than the lake. A northwest winds dumps and dumps lake-effect rain AND snow here in amounts that make you wish snares were legal! LOL I've battled this weather for over 30-years of chasing coyotes in crap, so my opinion is NOT based on guess-work, but rather, the school of hard-knocks. Thus, why I came up with my Pipe Dream. Have I seen avoidance with that set? Of course! No set has them running in and committing suicide like we all like OR like the lure makers tell us they will! LOL Coyotes are individuals.......heck, I've had coyotes roll on stuff the books say they SHOULD NOT roll on, like a coyote turd with nothing else added to it. I don't jump to quick conclusions or think small samples define a pattern or problem. Arguably, my BEST long-term lure I use and count-on and use extensively had THREE rollers in one day this fall, and I don't know that I can remember anything like that happening before. Did I STOP using it or think I have a problem? Nope.....just kept using it with confidence. I am going for averages and numbers and anomalies happen all the time. I don't freak out about it......just keep on keepin' on. If you watch one of the YouTube videos from the show HeadHunters TV we did with Randy Birdsong, he was getting scratched at and dug at nightly while I was killing them in grass and pipes and he switched over The next year, the opposite could have happened........they are coyotes, not robots. MZ
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7432097
12/15/21 10:33 AM
12/15/21 10:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
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I’ve seen wax dirt do some amazing things that plain dirt would not do, no it’s not perfect but preforms better under most conditions. It’s a little different out west the sun and wind are our friends here. Setting on a dirt dam helps keep my sets working most of the season.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7433833
12/17/21 06:06 AM
12/17/21 06:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
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The biggest problem I'm concerned with peat is bedding the trap rock solid without carrying nails and such. Do you use your same hammer technique as with the screen? I live and trap east of Lake Michigan, lake effect to the extreme. This sure ain't the high desert LOL..
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7433858
12/17/21 07:28 AM
12/17/21 07:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
Zagman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
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I view peat as a insulating liner between trap and existing dirt.
I dig my beds very small and hammer them out to let my Jake bare sqlyueeze into it.
I dig them deep so I can nestle the trap down into bone dry peat. After the peat goes in bottom and side walls and in hammered-in counter-sunk spot for levers, I salt it before I put trap in place.......
Then I squeak the Jake into the bed and then hammer the top and pinch it into place. Only peat is touching trap now. Trap is ROCK solid since I am not trying to bed it in a bed as big as a football and fill all that back in with the same amount of peat. The peat is only insulating the trap from the existing dirt.
Now I salt the top of the ground around all four sides of the trap, like heavy rows parallel to the top square bed and square trap....when done, looks like I've framed the bed in salt.
Now I place my screen on trap and top coat with peat. Not a ton. Trap is already bedded solid due to hammer. Don't forget to hammer outside of levers to push that dirt up to support levers and to eliminate the fulcrum they create if you don't have under support....and again, there is peat under the levers to insulate them from the ground as well.
Once trap is covered in peat along with levers, I top coat all of that with salt. Then, if snow is coming, I am done. If no snow, I will top coat with local material but not a lot.....I mean less than 1/8th inch. If super windy, might have to do more. Regardless, I now salt my top coat as well.
Salting is done in stages and in layers. Initial trap bed is small. Peat moss usage is NOT to bed the trap in but rather to just insulate trap from local ground cover.
NO method is bullet-proof. If NOT using grass, but rather, peat moss, this is how I do it. It keeps me in the game.
With this approach, you will no longer think bedding traps in peat is difficult, because you are NOT bedding them in peat! LOL
Again, I RAN from peat for years......LOTS of guys have and still do. I've figured out how to use it in a way that eliminates the wobble, and a SMALL trap bed is the key to that when you start
MZ
Last edited by Zagman; 12/17/21 07:34 AM.
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7433869
12/17/21 07:58 AM
12/17/21 07:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Wisconsin
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Zagman, do you have many deer? I worry about salt and deer where I am, but maybe I don't need to.
Steve WTA NRA
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: trappergbus]
#7434715
12/18/21 07:15 AM
12/18/21 07:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
trappergbus
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2012
Southern Michigan
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Thanks for the perfect explanation, Mark.
When I'm in areas with lots of deer I just set more traps and bed traps as close to the attraction as possible and still catch coyotes. The fired traps become something to pee on LOL..
Last edited by trappergbus; 12/18/21 07:18 AM.
Common sense catches alot of fur.. Pay homage to all you harvest..
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7434729
12/18/21 07:47 AM
12/18/21 07:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Louisville, Nebraska
jabNE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
Louisville, Nebraska
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Never held a deer yet. Reset and go after deer snaps. Ready for next check. Jim
Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7434919
12/18/21 12:48 PM
12/18/21 12:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
sw pa
powderfinger
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
sw pa
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Just wanted to share my method of making wax sand. I’ll start by melting my wax in a pot inside a pot of boiling water. I’ll then fill a couple roasting pans with sand and slap them in the oven. Heat the sand to 130ish. Then I’ll pour the hot sand in a 5gallon bucket. Add 1/2 pound of wax to approximately 4 1/2 gal of sand. I mix it with my dirt hole auger. After mixed spread it out on a tarp and rake it thin because it will harden when the wax cools. Wait for it to cool completely and then sift it with a sifter back into a bucket and your good to go. Works for me. >> Sounds like a good method. I spread construction sand out on a black tarp on my quad trailer. sprinkle flake wax over the sand. The ratio is up to what you have found to work for you. The summer sun will melt the wax. I use the top side of a rake and blend it together periodically. As I recall, 50Lbs of sand is about 4+ gallons. Minimal hassle.
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Zagman]
#7436687
12/20/21 03:55 PM
12/20/21 03:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
sw pa
powderfinger
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
sw pa
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Freeze-thaw-rain-ice is the problem with ANY bedding material. Once it get below freezing and stays there with any NEW moisture being snow, ANY thing works, including plain or bone-dry dirt with no wax on it.
Waxed dirt OR sand is NOT maintenance-proof during these freeze-thaw-rain-ice days...........if you've used it, you see that "pancake" of crust on top from rain or dew. Sure, a coyote should bust through that with his weight AND if using a good trap, the trap SHOULD come up through as well. But, I found myself on my hands and knees addressing that pancake during the crappy times and it was FAR from maintenance-free.
Therefore, I sat back on day and thought: Why the heck am I spending all this time and effort AND money to make something that is NOT bullet-proof. Plus, like others say above, I did feel the need to top coat it with local material. This isn't the arid west, this is the Amazon jungle with high moisture amounts that often freeze. Top-coating is a delicate balance and its easy to put TOO much on top. Now you have the waxed-dirt pancake AND frozen local material. Yes, coyotes SHOULD break through that combined-crust, but you might miss some fox. But you might be missing coyotes as well......
Therefore, I went 100% to dry peat moss or grass coverings. Other than adding salt, they require, IMO, less maintenance during those crappy times. If snow is coming I do NOT top-coat the peat.....but if its just rain, I lightly top-coat and salt.
One year, I made 800 gallons of waxed sand. Took 10 years off of my life! Once it was gone, I never went back. That effort MAY being swaying my opinion a bit!
I've caught plenty of coyotes on waxed dirt and/or waxed sand. I caught plenty-more on peat and/or grass coverings. Easier, cheaper, less maintenance, etc. pushed me to that long-term plan of attack.
MZ Peat moss is an organic sponge! you must be using a great deal of salt to keep it from freezing....
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7437736
12/21/21 04:33 PM
12/21/21 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
Zagman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
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Ever have a trap bed full of water and then snap the trap off under water and all the dry peat moss just floats to the top?
Bone dry peat can take a lot of water before it gets saturated enough to absorb water......
But YES I use salt in generous quantities........
I live in place that measures annual snow falls in the 100's of inches........
Again, NO method is bullet-proof. Freeze-thaw is the worst. This weekend, it snowed for a few hours in the morning but the temps were mid-thirties most of the day. Later in the day, it turned to all rain. Then Saturday night it dropped down into the low teens.
Sunday AM we woke up to a sunny, beautiful morning with everything covered in a coating of ice. I could NOT open my truck doors that I had parked outside that night. My handful of traps were inoperable. No method of trap covering works in that, even waxed sand or dirt.
Later in the winter, when below freezing temps stick around and NO rain any longer, ANY method will work under the snow. The challenge? When the snow gets TOO deep and renders the sets inoperable. I can have waxed dirt totally operative under a couple of inches of snow and still catch coyotes. But, once we get real snow, like six inches to a foot or more, well, again, we are probably out of business.
There's places in NY that get more snow than me, but there are many many more places that get far less.
Like comparing Erie PA to Philly. Lake Effect snow is just a total game changer compared to places that only get snow from storms. We learn to adapt or go home.
That said, there is a reason 95% of my annual coyote catch comes in Oct-November! LOL
MZ
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Zagman]
#7437831
12/21/21 06:39 PM
12/21/21 06:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
sw pa
powderfinger
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
sw pa
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I fish Erie and Lake Ontario. The weather is wild and wooly for sure. we experience the up and down freeze/thaw cycles here but not the tremendous snow accumulation.
I use dry grass with my sets in fields and finely shredded leaves on the wood sets. Do you find any advantages with peat moss?
Last edited by powderfinger; 12/21/21 07:02 PM.
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: powderfinger]
#7437872
12/21/21 07:30 PM
12/21/21 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
Zagman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Central New York State
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I should be more clear. If the Dirt Fairy showed up at my barn and said: I will grant your wish........you can get a lifetime supply of waxed dirt/sand OR a lifetime supply of bone-dry peat. I'd take the waxed dirt! The point I was trying to make was that since waxed dirt is NOT bullet-proof either, I had decided to STOP making it and just go all peat or grass. My catch hasn't seemed to suffer from it. Here's what you have to understand.....I pretty much have to assume freezing weather from the get-go......so IN THEORY I need to be freeze-proof ready from Day One. I fell asleep on the job this fall and had TWO days where I missed 5-8 coyotes a day because I got lulled into a false sense of nice weather, Ma Nature changed her mind, and I was ill-prepared for that change. So, I need to use material early in the year to protect from freezing, and I use it in volume. Advantages with peat are: inexpensive, readily available, lightweight, no need to sift (if you buy the quality stuff). If I am out of state and run out, I just go buy more. Disadvantages: Doesn't pack well (see how I use it though above), odor (while "natural" it is mighty pungent and I have seen SOME scratching at it and/or refusals) If windy, its gets in your eyes and mouth and such! Waxed Dirt OR sand Disadvantages: Time to make, expensive, heavy, not bullet-proof, and I have seen SOME scratching at it and/or refusals) and you tend to use a lot of it since there's no air pockets in it so each set takes more waxed dirt than it would traditional dirt. Advantages: Packs decent, more likely NOT to freeze than peat SOOOOO......the epiphany I had was that I just didn't see ENOUGH advantages over peat to keep making it annually. I've caught over 100 coyotes a year in NY since I started using it solely other than the years I went to Kansas and, well, this year. but I am not done yet! Find me a Dirt Fairy and I'll take all the waxed dirt I can get........but until then, I will have to stick with peat and grass (and YES, leaves in the woods (on top of peat!))  MZ
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7440134
12/24/21 12:55 AM
12/24/21 12:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Central, SD
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Not all waxed dirt is equal the results can be very different depending on the types of dirt you have and how you handle it. Here a good badger mound will give a guy a idea of what he’s dealing with and if it’s worth putting time and money into it. I use heat lamps and a garden hoe and avoid beating the dirt into a powder.
I hear sorties of mold in stored dirt if that happens it was never dry enough or got wet before/during storage. It should look no different then when you put it in the bucket when you open it down the road.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Law Dog]
#7440958
12/24/21 11:52 PM
12/24/21 11:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
N.E. Nebr
LDW
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2016
N.E. Nebr
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Not all waxed dirt is equal the results can be very different depending on the types of dirt you have and how you handle it. Here a good badger mound will give a guy a idea of what he’s dealing with and if it’s worth putting time and money into it. I use heat lamps and a garden hoe and avoid beating the dirt into a powder.
I hear sorties of mold in stored dirt if that happens it was never dry enough or got wet before/during storage. It should look no different then when you put it in the bucket when you open it down the road. I agree with you about the mold. I'm using some right now that i 3 years old. Been stored all this time in a plastic trash can with the lid on. It looks like the day I made it, but was completely dry when I made it.
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Re: Wax Sand
[Re: Shot]
#7442145
12/26/21 02:23 PM
12/26/21 02:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Central Texas
Centex Trapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2017
Central Texas
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Great explanation of the pros and cons of peat and wax sand. This is why this forum is the best. A lot of knowledge here. Read about it and then make up your own mind. Thanks everyone for your time and input!
Bridges Predator Control Serving Central Texas
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