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Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7433869
12/17/21 07:58 AM
12/17/21 07:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,263
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,263
Wisconsin
Zagman, do you have many deer? I worry about salt and deer where I am, but maybe I don't need to.


Steve
WTA
NTA
NRA
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7433943
12/17/21 10:14 AM
12/17/21 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 626
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 626
Central New York State
I do but I'd NOT worry about it.....I am trapping coyotes in the winter. If I get a couple deer snaps so be it. It'd be like NOT trapping at all due to a concern of a couple of traps being stolen.

Cost of doing business, and deer snaps fall into that bucket.

MZ


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7433949
12/17/21 10:22 AM
12/17/21 10:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,263
Wisconsin
8117 Steve R Offline
trapper
8117 Steve R  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,263
Wisconsin
Thanks Mark.


Steve
WTA
NTA
NRA
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7434010
12/17/21 12:04 PM
12/17/21 12:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,637
S.E. Ohio
M
M.Magis Offline
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M.Magis  Offline
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M

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,637
S.E. Ohio
Most, and probably nearly all deer snaps are because of their curiosity towards the odors of the set and nothing to do with being attracted to salt. Deer barely even consume salt in the winter months. But theyíre always curious.

Re: Wax Sand [Re: trappergbus] #7434715
12/18/21 07:15 AM
12/18/21 07:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,372
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
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trappergbus  Offline
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T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,372
Southern Michigan
Thanks for the perfect explanation, Mark.

When I'm in areas with lots of deer I just set more traps and bed traps as close to the attraction as possible and still catch coyotes. The fired traps become something to pee on LOL..

Last edited by trappergbus; 12/18/21 07:18 AM.

Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7434729
12/18/21 07:47 AM
12/18/21 07:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,082
Firth, Nebraska
jabNE Offline
trapper
jabNE  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,082
Firth, Nebraska
Never held a deer yet. Reset and go after deer snaps. Ready for next check.
Jim


Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7434919
12/18/21 12:48 PM
12/18/21 12:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
P
powderfinger Offline
trapper
powderfinger  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
Originally Posted by Shot
Just wanted to share my method of making wax sand. Iíll start by melting my wax in a pot inside a pot of boiling water. Iíll then fill a couple roasting pans with sand and slap them in the oven. Heat the sand to 130ish. Then Iíll pour the hot sand in a 5gallon bucket. Add 1/2 pound of wax to approximately 4 1/2 gal of sand. I mix it with my dirt hole auger. After mixed spread it out on a tarp and rake it thin because it will harden when the wax cools. Wait for it to cool completely and then sift it with a sifter back into a bucket and your good to go. Works for me.



>> Sounds like a good method. I spread construction sand out on a black tarp on my quad trailer. sprinkle flake wax over the sand. The ratio is up to what you have found to work for you. The summer sun will melt the wax. I use the top side of a rake and blend it together periodically. As I recall, 50Lbs of sand is about 4+ gallons. Minimal hassle.

Re: Wax Sand [Re: Zagman] #7436687
12/20/21 03:55 PM
12/20/21 03:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
P
powderfinger Offline
trapper
powderfinger  Offline
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P

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
Originally Posted by Zagman
Freeze-thaw-rain-ice is the problem with ANY bedding material. Once it get below freezing and stays there with any NEW moisture being snow, ANY thing works, including plain or bone-dry dirt with no wax on it.

Waxed dirt OR sand is NOT maintenance-proof during these freeze-thaw-rain-ice days...........if you've used it, you see that "pancake" of crust on top from rain or dew. Sure, a coyote should bust through that with his weight AND if using a good trap, the trap SHOULD come up through as well. But, I found myself on my hands and knees addressing that pancake during the crappy times and it was FAR from maintenance-free.

Therefore, I sat back on day and thought: Why the heck am I spending all this time and effort AND money to make something that is NOT bullet-proof. Plus, like others say above, I did feel the need to top coat it with local material. This isn't the arid west, this is the Amazon jungle with high moisture amounts that often freeze. Top-coating is a delicate balance and its easy to put TOO much on top. Now you have the waxed-dirt pancake AND frozen local material. Yes, coyotes SHOULD break through that combined-crust, but you might miss some fox. But you might be missing coyotes as well......

Therefore, I went 100% to dry peat moss or grass coverings. Other than adding salt, they require, IMO, less maintenance during those crappy times. If snow is coming I do NOT top-coat the peat.....but if its just rain, I lightly top-coat and salt.

One year, I made 800 gallons of waxed sand. Took 10 years off of my life! Once it was gone, I never went back. That effort MAY being swaying my opinion a bit!

I've caught plenty of coyotes on waxed dirt and/or waxed sand. I caught plenty-more on peat and/or grass coverings. Easier, cheaper, less maintenance, etc. pushed me to that long-term plan of attack.

MZ


Peat moss is an organic sponge! you must be using a great deal of salt to keep it from freezing....

Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7437736
12/21/21 04:33 PM
12/21/21 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 626
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 626
Central New York State
Ever have a trap bed full of water and then snap the trap off under water and all the dry peat moss just floats to the top?

Bone dry peat can take a lot of water before it gets saturated enough to absorb water......

But YES I use salt in generous quantities........

I live in place that measures annual snow falls in the 100's of inches........

Again, NO method is bullet-proof. Freeze-thaw is the worst. This weekend, it snowed for a few hours in the morning but the temps were mid-thirties most of the day. Later in the day, it turned to all rain. Then Saturday night it dropped down into the low teens.

Sunday AM we woke up to a sunny, beautiful morning with everything covered in a coating of ice. I could NOT open my truck doors that I had parked outside that night. My handful of traps were inoperable. No method of trap covering works in that, even waxed sand or dirt.

Later in the winter, when below freezing temps stick around and NO rain any longer, ANY method will work under the snow. The challenge? When the snow gets TOO deep and renders the sets inoperable. I can have waxed dirt totally operative under a couple of inches of snow and still catch coyotes. But, once we get real snow, like six inches to a foot or more, well, again, we are probably out of business.

There's places in NY that get more snow than me, but there are many many more places that get far less.

Like comparing Erie PA to Philly. Lake Effect snow is just a total game changer compared to places that only get snow from storms. We learn to adapt or go home.

That said, there is a reason 95% of my annual coyote catch comes in Oct-November! LOL

MZ


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Zagman] #7437831
12/21/21 06:39 PM
12/21/21 06:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
P
powderfinger Offline
trapper
powderfinger  Offline
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P

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
I fish Erie and Lake Ontario. The weather is wild and wooly for sure. we experience the up and down freeze/thaw cycles here but not the tremendous snow accumulation.

I use dry grass with my sets in fields and finely shredded leaves on the wood sets. Do you find any advantages with peat moss?

Last edited by powderfinger; 12/21/21 07:02 PM.
Re: Wax Sand [Re: powderfinger] #7437872
12/21/21 07:30 PM
12/21/21 07:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 626
Central New York State
Z
Zagman Offline
trapper
Zagman  Offline
trapper
Z

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 626
Central New York State
I should be more clear. If the Dirt Fairy showed up at my barn and said: I will grant your wish........you can get a lifetime supply of waxed dirt/sand OR a lifetime supply of bone-dry peat.

I'd take the waxed dirt!

The point I was trying to make was that since waxed dirt is NOT bullet-proof either, I had decided to STOP making it and just go all peat or grass. My catch hasn't seemed to suffer from it.

Here's what you have to understand.....I pretty much have to assume freezing weather from the get-go......so IN THEORY I need to be freeze-proof ready from Day One. I fell asleep on the job this fall and had TWO days where I missed 5-8 coyotes a day because I got lulled into a false sense of nice weather, Ma Nature changed her mind, and I was ill-prepared for that change.

So, I need to use material early in the year to protect from freezing, and I use it in volume.

Advantages with peat are: inexpensive, readily available, lightweight, no need to sift (if you buy the quality stuff). If I am out of state and run out, I just go buy more.
Disadvantages: Doesn't pack well (see how I use it though above), odor (while "natural" it is mighty pungent and I have seen SOME scratching at it and/or refusals) If windy, its gets in your eyes and mouth and such!
Waxed Dirt OR sand Disadvantages: Time to make, expensive, heavy, not bullet-proof, and I have seen SOME scratching at it and/or refusals) and you tend to use a lot of it since there's no air pockets in it so each set takes more waxed dirt than it would traditional dirt.
Advantages: Packs decent, more likely NOT to freeze than peat

SOOOOO......the epiphany I had was that I just didn't see ENOUGH advantages over peat to keep making it annually. I've caught over 100 coyotes a year in NY since I started using it solely other than the years I went to Kansas and, well, this year. but I am not done yet!

Find me a Dirt Fairy and I'll take all the waxed dirt I can get........but until then, I will have to stick with peat and grass (and YES, leaves in the woods (on top of peat!)) smile

MZ


Eastern Coyotes.......Western Numbers.

Check out Coyote U!

YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/JGwORfXpwOo

www.coyoteu.com

Mark@coyoteu.com
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Zagman] #7438644
12/22/21 03:49 PM
12/22/21 03:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
P
powderfinger Offline
trapper
powderfinger  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
sw pa
Very detailed and helpful Mark. I also feel that nothing is foolproof. As with hunting and fishing. You must adapt to conditions to be successful.

Utilizing techniques that you have confidence in is paramount. The key with all outdoor endeavors is to use common send, be persistent and modify as you you go...

I'll send the dirt fairy up your way after he makes a stop here at my farm!

Merry Christmas to all.

Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7440134
12/24/21 12:55 AM
12/24/21 12:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 29,839
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 29,839
Central, SD
Not all waxed dirt is equal the results can be very different depending on the types of dirt you have and how you handle it. Here a good badger mound will give a guy a idea of what heís dealing with and if itís worth putting time and money into it. I use heat lamps and a garden hoe and avoid beating the dirt into a powder.

I hear sorties of mold in stored dirt if that happens it was never dry enough or got wet before/during storage. It should look no different then when you put it in the bucket when you open it down the road.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Wax Sand [Re: Law Dog] #7440958
12/24/21 11:52 PM
12/24/21 11:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,047
N.E. Nebr
L
LDW Offline
trapper
LDW  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,047
N.E. Nebr
Originally Posted by Law Dog
Not all waxed dirt is equal the results can be very different depending on the types of dirt you have and how you handle it. Here a good badger mound will give a guy a idea of what heís dealing with and if itís worth putting time and money into it. I use heat lamps and a garden hoe and avoid beating the dirt into a powder.

I hear sorties of mold in stored dirt if that happens it was never dry enough or got wet before/during storage. It should look no different then when you put it in the bucket when you open it down the road.

I agree with you about the mold. I'm using some right now that i 3 years old. Been stored all this time in a plastic trash can with the lid on. It looks like the day I made it, but was completely dry when I made it.

Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7442002
12/26/21 10:11 AM
12/26/21 10:11 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
ND
K
Kyle Krebs Offline
trapper
Kyle Krebs  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
ND
I'm gonna throw out a few things to be considered. No matter what kinda dry material you use.
1) winter trapping is an art form in itself. You have to pick spots that blow clear and let the sun help you. Or if you are in timber country get set out of the sun to keep the snow ECT the same consistency if that makes sense at all. Learn to let nature help you.
2) you simply can't run as much equipment and do it by right. It takes more time and work period. 100s a day don't happen in true winter condition.
3) if setting so sun can help you. Absolutely have to brush sets off every time around( exception would be a real cold snap if your on a 24 hr check you could leave a few days but after snow starts to get were it builds up under your feet it needs to get moved.
4) if bedded down in wax dirt and on top you can get the frozen top cover like most have said. Just flip it back and scratch some new blending over it. Also make sure to brush snow back 3 foot or so. Not just over dirt pattern.
5) some types of county you can't snare because of f cover. It's the same with winter trapping. On open farm field is gonna cause much frustration. You have be to go to country you can keep sets working.
6) snares have limitations but can go along ways in the freeze thaw department.
7) winter trapping is an art form in itself. I don't deal with lots of rain here in winter but we something get some before a snow storm. Sometimes you just have to redo everything. Re open snare trails,shovel sets off, ECT. Work work work. Do something no matter what and you will surprise yourself. To get really good at winter trapping you have to make a conscious effort to do it. Find places that you can keep stuff working ECT. The truth is everyone an expert but very few actually do it.
8) did I mention learning how to snare? Definitely do this. Sorry for you guys who live in restrictive states that won't allow them. You definitely need to get with the game department and legislators and get them legal and not these rediculous cable restraint either.
9) out Canadian cousins do alot of snow trapping. I don't know anything about it but could work for some of you. Our snow here is always changing so I don't see it helping me much.

Re: Wax Sand [Re: Shot] #7442145
12/26/21 02:23 PM
12/26/21 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 45
Central Texas
C
Centex Trapper Offline
trapper
Centex Trapper  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 45
Central Texas
Great explanation of the pros and cons of peat and wax sand. This is why this forum is the best. A lot of knowledge here. Read about it and then make up your own mind. Thanks everyone for your time and input!

Re: Wax Sand [Re: Zagman] #7521271
03/08/22 08:37 AM
03/08/22 08:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 27
PA
C
CountryCletus Offline
trapper
CountryCletus  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 27
PA
Hello! I realize that this post, and your comment are YEARS old, but I was curious where you were located as to have a better idea of your winter conditions for using peat/grass. Youíd mentioned snow, so I suppose I can rule out the south west, lol. Hope you see this, thanks!

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