"Distribution Sector considered the weakest link in the entire power sector. Transmission Losses is approximately 17% while Distribution Losses is approximate 50%"

Source EEP." Electrical Engineering Portal"

Clark, you can lead a horse to water...............

According to the US Energy Information Administration those losses are 5%:

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=105&t=3

Danny, do you want to contribute to this conversation or ride on the coattails of others?

My bad. That article was written by and Indian Engineer. Found the original and it actually is written in an Indian electrical magazine. The 5% seems to be the U.S. estimate. Plus over half of the distribution losses are people stealing power in India. Carry on!

Stealing power from a distribution line?! That’s a ballsy move.

Not possible unless you have a transformer. Maybe bypassing meters? Or running your own service line to the transformer or somebody else's service line?

The problem as I see it is the push via subsidies for electric cars.
If the Left prevails, they will ban gas powered cars. California has already gone that way with small engine equipment.
What they are doing would be like Theodore Roosevelt in 1904, declaring, " Well boys, we now have the automobile. Time to kill all of the horses."

I'm happy with riding I guess Clark, but again I think the problem is your comprehension. I mentioned loss through resistance in transmission. If you cant grasp that its not my problem. Someone else brought in numbers.

if you believe electric cars are wonderful then go buy one. I say before they can be in every drive way we will have to have more generators and more power lines.

IF this is accurate we are losing a little less than 6% here in KS. http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/...ars-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/

The green goblins are saying it takes less energy to move a battery powered vehicle from point a to point b. I dont believe that.

That's great. Until everybody is doing it at the same time.

Don't you know, electricity comes from houses just like meat comes from grocery stores.

Electricity production and distribution are subsidized. Some may be paid back by consumers. It is not whether an electric car is more efficient, it is whether an electric car is cost effective. An electric car is more expensive, the fuel transfer( electricity) is going to be more expensive or at least cost money to provide. The infrastructure already exist for maintaining and fueling gasoline and diesel cars and trucks. Mandating a change seems to make little sense. Encouraging a change makes little sense. I think the point of mandating change is job creation. I always look at who will be the big winners and losers when the government subsidizes or mandates things. That makes it make sense.

Cars were a vast improvement over horses for road travel. Electric cars are not a vast improvement over non-electric cars for road travel. Still probably the opposite. There is a reason we don't run many electric trains in the U.S outside of cities.

Energy in general, petroleum products or electricity, is subsidized.

Its hard to find anything on petroleum subsidies not written by the green goblins. The reason is there are no direct subsidies. Instead there are various tax deductions. These tax breaks are whats being called subsidies. I too am against tax breaks of this kind. Lets also remember that every large corporation gets special tax breaks. The oil industry is not alone by a long shot.

People who claim they are needed claim they create jobs and on and on and on. I say if taxes are so onerous that business can not afford to pay them, we just cut taxes. Do away with special interest. Of course then congress will lose all its "payola".

Whenever someone talks about oil subsidies what they are really talking about is the tax code. Its needs overhauled for everybody. There is no reason in the world income tax should take more than two dozen paragraphs.

So dont start parroting the lies of the green goblins about subsidies.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2184

This bill shows what I am talking about. Its all tax breaks. The same kind of tax breaks every industry gets. Even business that DOES get direct subsidies. Like windmill farms.

Thank you, Pike River. Do we also want to talk about one of the holy grails on here, farming? I don’t know the answer but what receives more gov’t subsidies, farming, petroleum industry or electric cars/“green” technologies?

Dirt, I agree but long-term efficiency is a compelling reason for electric transportation. It’s not difficult to design an entire system that does better than the 35% that gas vehicles might manage to achieve and that is presuming no losses upstream in the fuel production process.

Danny, thanks for doing some research. If transmission/distribution losses are 6% than how inefficient would an electric vehicle and power plant have to be to bring the overall efficiency to 35%? Obviously quite terrible and I posted some rough numbers above that show it’s better. I don’t know where you think the losses would come in?

If you look deeper many of the tax breaks petroleum gets are on taxes only they pay. Like severance taxes. There is no wealth transfer. Make up bird killing tax on wind power, then give wind power a tax break.

Tesla are super fast vehicles and take a little bit to get used to driving them. Letting off the acceleration pedal works like braking as they are either on or off in terms of power, brakes last long if you learn to use the one pedal more than the brake.
Tesla itself as a company or vehicle make may not become standard for all, but the other manufacturers will have their own versions out eventually. Tesla has a relatively TINY % of today's auto market share, but they have the attention of the other auto makers for sure. F150s will be interesting to follow as they developed and get tweaked here and there until they become more what they need to be from the consumer.
I won't be pulling trigger on any soon for sure, as we sat for 5 hours the other night with no power in our neighborhood and couldn't run anything in our all electric home, even our well pump, stove, furnace, you name it.
So we will be doing some tweaking here and there. Adding generators, a propane or woodburning fireplace, that sort of thing. We are figuring out what we need with our acreage to make it through situations, im sure auto makers will do so too.
Jim

Click on auxiliary electrical losses. Cabin climate control is a biggie

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv-ev.shtml



https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/atv.shtml

Unless we build nuclear generating stations, I can't see how pollution is less with electric. Not even talking about all the mining to be done in order to build new transmission lines and batteries.

The green goblins will never go along with nuclear. If we simply depend on wind and solar and keep only the generators we now have there will be some serious blackouts when its cloudy or no wind blowing. they wont be able to keep up. Even if its not hot enough for AC or cold enough for furnace fans.

Government needs to get clear out of this stuff. if it can be made economically feasible, if people perceive a real benefit, it will all happen without government.

My grandad told me about my great grandad buying the first car anybody had in Prowers county CO. He was 11 so it was the summer of 1914. they were harvesting wheat when it arrived on the train. They got gas the same way. In barrels that came by train. Within a few short short years there were gas stations and distribution systems for it all over the country. The advantages over a horse drawn carriage, or just riding a horse, were pretty obvious.

"More than 60% of energy used for electricity generation is lost in conversion." EIA

6% transmission and distribution losses currently

Energy efficient. EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.

40% lose 6% down to 37.6% lose 23% to 29% efficient. There is an efficiency gain. Is it cost effective?

Joe Biden having a "deep, meaningful conversation." That tells you right there it's all BS.

I didn't read all of this but Amazon is going to all electric.

Lets let them iron all the bugs out of them.

Electric will be much simpler.

I remember replacing an engine in our back yard.
Try that with todays engines.

just