|
Re: Nebraska beaver trapping pics
[Re: Wife]
#7519696
03/06/22 08:03 PM
03/06/22 08:03 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
Dean Chapel
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 714
Deer lodge, MT
|
Goose is on the ball but will clarify a little for people unfamiliar with this state's priorities. Nebraska is a landowner state and by that I mean the title holder (the one with the property deed) has all rights to the the land and what is beneath it per the Nebraska Constitution. The surface water is owned by the citizens of the state and even the landowner, when he/she reaches a threshold of use - amount and type - a permit must be acquired from the DNR.... On rivers (per the question, bowhunterks) there is very little navigable water here and if you stake a trap on land or in the stream (even use a drowning weight) you need the permission of the owner of that land. Like Goose said, the deed is for the land (Dry or Wet). and if it is rented to a person for cropland/ranch production,,,,, ONLY the landowner can sign the trespass complaint unless specifically addressed in the lease agreement. Case law was established on ownership rights in the 1980's when some folks were having a cookout on a sandbar in the Missouri River by Blair. Adjoining landowner told them to leave and they refused so he got the sheriff to come and arrest for trespassing. The party folks went to court and thought they had the Navigable River clause allowing them to have a cookout. Landowner showed his deed description to the farm which said (legal description meets and bounds) he owned to the Iowa state line. End of story, judge said guilty and to pay the fine or jail. That established the owner's right to keep everything allowed in the trespass laws and only need to allow travel on a river/stream since the people own that. So you need permission to set a trap (or have a Sunday cookout) on the same river/stream you can legally use a watercraft on. Other recreational type states are different but for here, that's my take ......... the mike And yet, the US supreme court has said that any water that is navigable (and defined as navigable by the size of vessel used for trading, such as a larger canoe) and actually goes somewhere that would facilitate trade, belongs to the State. This includes the land underneath the stream UP TO THE HIGH WATER MARK. This is regardless of what the owner's deed says. The problem is when the people charged with trespass let it settle at the district court level, rather than forcing it to the state or US supreme court. It's already settled case law at the supreme court level. Most states believe they are the end-all regarding stream and land ownership, but they are not. It is a federal issue.
|
|
|
Re: Nebraska beaver trapping pics
[Re: Dean Chapel]
#7519729
03/06/22 08:28 PM
03/06/22 08:28 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,480
Idaho
bearcat2
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,480
Idaho
|
Goose is on the ball but will clarify a little for people unfamiliar with this state's priorities. Nebraska is a landowner state and by that I mean the title holder (the one with the property deed) has all rights to the the land and what is beneath it per the Nebraska Constitution. The surface water is owned by the citizens of the state and even the landowner, when he/she reaches a threshold of use - amount and type - a permit must be acquired from the DNR.... On rivers (per the question, bowhunterks) there is very little navigable water here and if you stake a trap on land or in the stream (even use a drowning weight) you need the permission of the owner of that land. Like Goose said, the deed is for the land (Dry or Wet). and if it is rented to a person for cropland/ranch production,,,,, ONLY the landowner can sign the trespass complaint unless specifically addressed in the lease agreement. Case law was established on ownership rights in the 1980's when some folks were having a cookout on a sandbar in the Missouri River by Blair. Adjoining landowner told them to leave and they refused so he got the sheriff to come and arrest for trespassing. The party folks went to court and thought they had the Navigable River clause allowing them to have a cookout. Landowner showed his deed description to the farm which said (legal description meets and bounds) he owned to the Iowa state line. End of story, judge said guilty and to pay the fine or jail. That established the owner's right to keep everything allowed in the trespass laws and only need to allow travel on a river/stream since the people own that. So you need permission to set a trap (or have a Sunday cookout) on the same river/stream you can legally use a watercraft on. Other recreational type states are different but for here, that's my take ......... the mike And yet, the US supreme court has said that any water that is navigable (and defined as navigable by the size of vessel used for trading, such as a larger canoe) and actually goes somewhere that would facilitate trade, belongs to the State. This includes the land underneath the stream UP TO THE HIGH WATER MARK. This is regardless of what the owner's deed says. The problem is when the people charged with trespass let it settle at the district court level, rather than forcing it to the state or US supreme court. It's already settled case law at the supreme court level. Most states believe they are the end-all regarding stream and land ownership, but they are not. It is a federal issue. The feds also say that marijuana is an illegal drug, yet all sorts of states are legalizing it, at the same time as they claim they have no jurisdiction to buck the feds on the wolf or any other endangered species issue. Basically each state picks and chooses what they want to buck the federal government on. And more times than not the federal government ignores them. Problem is to take something to the Supreme court takes a lot of money and time that most people don't have, with no guarantee that the Supreme Court will even deign to hear them out.
|
|
|
Re: Nebraska beaver trapping pics
[Re: loosegoose]
#7520399
03/07/22 11:05 AM
03/07/22 11:05 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,480
Idaho
bearcat2
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,480
Idaho
|
I will say that I have surveyed in multiple states and lots of old deeds are written to various terms. I've did ones that go to "normal high water", which means where the water gets at normal high water times like in the spring, not when it is flooding, I've done ones that read "top of bank" and ones that read "edge of water", this one can be a little interesting to interpret to draw a map or figure an exact acreage from, since it changes daily, and "center of thread", this one can be a lot of fun, since it involves wading/swimming down the stream and finding the deepest part of the channel to tie every angle point in it. I've also surveyed places on the ocean that went to high tide, and others that went to low tide, which is fun, you get a tide table and wait til the water is at its lowest point to either tie any existing monuments, or to run out there and try and set new ones before the tide comes in too much.
As Mike is saying though, doesn't really matter what the deed says or what you are paying taxes on (how many of you have a deed that says "to centerline county road"?) it is how the State interprets and enforces things.
|
|
|
Re: Nebraska beaver trapping pics
[Re: bowhunterks]
#7520753
03/07/22 05:52 PM
03/07/22 05:52 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 48
NE Neb.
FHSU_Wildman
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 48
NE Neb.
|
BowhunterKS: In Kansas, the Arkansas River, the Missouri River, and the Kansas River are the only navigable, public access rivers. So as explained above, if on the water you are fine, but you do need to access the river at a public area. Kansas is a little less clear in its definition on the water though, because the "river" is defined as being below the normal high water mark... which is as clear as it sounds... its not. If your kayaking the Kansas River and pull off onto a sandbar to waterfowl hunt, fish, camp, cook out, etc., and stay on the sandbar without going up out of the river channel, you are below the high water line and you are fine.
Where you define high water mark and where I define high water would likely be different. To compound issues, out by Dodge City where the Ark runs dry, it is still considered navigable, even though there is no water, and therefore arguing where the high water line is becomes laughable. I know our Game Wardens have a (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) of a time every year on the Ark by Dodge with trespass complains because the definition of where is public access and where is not is so unclear.
To stick with the Blue River question (for Kansas), from the Nebraska/Kansas state line, the Blue is private until you reach Blue Rapids, KS. From that point on it is owned by either KDWP or Army Corps till you get just below the spillway on Tuttle. After that it is private again until you get to the boat ramp on the Blue River right above its confluence with the Kansas River, this area, and on into the Kansas River, is public.
Cedar County
|
|
|
Re: Nebraska beaver trapping pics
[Re: loosegoose]
#7521242
03/08/22 07:30 AM
03/08/22 07:30 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,358
Firth, Nebraska
jabNE
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,358
Firth, Nebraska
|
So...anyway...loosegoose, how's is the line going? Got a little cold snap there but today is nice but windy. Wed night into Thursday will be 3 to 5 inches of snow and cold highs in 20s wed, thur, and fri. After that you got some really nice days sat through all next week 50s and 60s.
Go get em man!
Jim
Money cannot buy you happiness, but it can buy you a trapping license and that's pretty close.
|
|
|
Re: Nebraska beaver trapping pics
[Re: jabNE]
#7521277
03/08/22 08:45 AM
03/08/22 08:45 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,771
Beatrice, NE
loosegoose
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 4,771
Beatrice, NE
|
So...anyway...loosegoose, how's is the line going? Got a little cold snap there but today is nice but windy. Wed night into Thursday will be 3 to 5 inches of snow and cold highs in 20s wed, thur, and fri. After that you got some really nice days sat through all next week 50s and 60s.
Go get em man!
Jim I'm just about done for the season. I've got a couple pieces of private land where some beavers need to go to beaver heaven, and then I'm going camping with the boys before the end of the month up by Milford where we'll hit a few pieces of public land for (hopefully) a few more beavers and some muskrats.
|
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2022/03/full-45939-131198-img_e1928.jpg)
