Impressive patterns with the #8.5's !!!!!

Looks like the Third Degree hit high and left for you. It's not a super pattern. But it would work if it was hitting to P.O.A. But, why would you with what the other shells are doing ???

What are you guys paying for these shells? I saw a 5 pack of federal tss on one website for 30 bucks. Thats manageable. Others are 50 or higher. This is for 20 gauge. Seeing 65 on up for 12.

For the fellow who asked if tss is more effective than lead....

Due to its higher density TSS allows for more penetration with smaller shot sizes. So where traditionally you shot lead 4's or 5's, now you would be shooting tss 9's or 9.5's

TSS 9's have effective penetration according to KPY software to around 70 yards

Lead 5's have effective penetration to about 52 yards

What this shot allows you to do is shoot smaller gauges and still have plenty of lethality.

I'm shooting 1oz of 9.5's in a 410 and I can put more pellets in a 10" circle at 40 yards than you can with a 3.5" 12ga #5 shell. And mine shoots like a pellet rifle, the days of recoil are over. These shells cost me about 3 bucks a piece to load

When I want to shoot a big gun I get out my 870 28ga and shoot 1.5 oz of 9's

I bought a couple of boxes of Apex 20 gauge turkey loads on sale and with coupon codes I was around $38 for a box of 5. Without sales and coupon codes they are in excess of $45 a box.

I have been shooting the sub gauges (410 and 20) for turkey the last few years. My days of taking a pounding from the 12 gauge are over.

Incredible

Those pics are at 41 yards. 50 yards would be a dead bird, but I won’t shoot past 40. If I can’t get him in any closer then he lives to see another day.
And yes, the old stuff still works, but I’ve yet to see patterns like that with it. The one thing I do like about TSS is it’s “path clearing” capability. If that turkey come in through high weeds or a brushy area and I only have a small opening, I KNOW for a fact it’s a dead turkey.

Yeah the gun was originally set up for Hevi13 #7’s. When we started rolling our own TSS we found the 1 5/8oz load patterned the best. So when Apex started making them we bought some to test and they fit the bill.
It amazing how some shells POA is not POI.
When sighting in the FastFires we use dove loads at 10yds then once it’s blowing out the circle we back up to 20 to make sure the pattern is still even around the POA. If it’s good we back up to 40 and throw in a turkey load and adjust as needed. I have mine shooting a tad bit high because I aim where the pretty meets the ugly.

Is that single an H&R.?

The blended shells are a tricky balance. The ones like federal 3rd degree are terrible due to similar shot sizes being combined.

I've noticed that blends with shot sizes that differ a good bit pattern phenomenally. The larger shot on top forces the shot back into the wad with more setback creating a tighter pattern.

For instance, a blend of 8's and 10's shoots MUCH better in my 28ga and 20ga than straight 9's even though the total pellet count in the load is close

I will NOT be jumping on the less is better bandwagon with most. I have an awesome turkey set up in 20 ga. for my wife and son and it is pretty deadly. Hevi and TSS are phenomenal compared to the old lead stuff. Their 20 will pattern mixed shot just as well as straight. Though most of their shots on birds are around 30 yards, I'm sure it will kill beyond that. But for myself, I just can't see me getting away from my 12ga. $1200 single shot build.

Hard to believe that #9 shot will penetrate better than #5 copper plated lead.
With #5 shot from the 12 gauge 3.5” penetration and pattern density are good out to 64 yards.

12 ga 3.5” loads of TSS shot are $84 for a box of 5 shells! There is no way I would pay that!

I shoot 2 toms per year so I use 2 shells per year. I have enough federal premium loads for 9 years.

Your lead has a density of 11.3 g/cc

TSS has a density of 18 g/cc

That's the difference

I do not doubt your experiences. When I said it is hard to believe, I meant as in that is shocking.

I understand that the density is greater. But will #9 TSS be as effective #5 lead?

Maybe if setting up a turkey gun today, I would go with a 20, but the hot rod 1187 is just about perfect. I do not hike all over to kill turkeys. They come to me.

You mean you don't need a 4" magnum to kill a turkey?
Around my parts where only shotgun and slugs are legal for deer hunting, a 20 gauge is the most popular. I hear they kill deer just fine.

No sir the #9 tss will not be as effective, it will be more effective than #5 lead. It is very shocking, I was not completely sold until I shot my first turkey with it. It kills them stone dead and hits them so hard you can hear it.

To be completely honest I find the 20ga to be overkill for turkeys with tss. I see no need to shoot anything larger than a 28ga. 1oz of tss 9's or 9.5's are perfect turkey medicine with little to no recoil.

For reference, 1oz of tss #9 has more pellets than a 3.5" #5 lead shot turkey load and more down range energy/penetration.

My target stand is adjustable and I can move it. It has a metal arm that I can adjust for what ever size paper or target I need. At 40 yards a copper plated #5 will knock the paint off it. But you are not able to feel anything. TSS # 9 will leave a impression in it. Will be as deep and the size of the shot. If you build a shot trap you can shoot the TSS and then reload the same shot. It’s that hard and does not deform.

Nessy - you are the only one doing it right! Impressive!

Trapper 7 - If they made 4” it might be fun.
A 20 gauge slug for deer? Of course that mortar round can kill a deer.
Our state has evolved to permit us use of straight-walled centerfire cartridges for deer hunting.
Can you believe that even the old .45-70 cartridge can kill a 250 pound deer? Yep it works.
The standard poacher cartridge for deer around here used to be a .22 magnum. Plenty enough for head shots.

Coondagger - Unfortunately at $84 per 5 shells, I’ll never experience the glory of TSS.
How dead can a turkey get?
I want no pellets in the breast meat.
I saw a guy kill 2 with one shot with lead - they were in line just offset front to back.
My brother in law used to kill turkeys with a 20 gauge shooting 2-3/4” shells with #6 lead shot. But he was a real goofball. He crippled quite a few birds. Knows more than anyone else.

Matt - very interesting ! I would like to see more photos of the guns, targets, and birds.
How does the extra hard shot cut through feathers?

Can you not shoot close toms? 20 or under is too close for me because the pattern is the size of the end of the barrel. I prefer 25-45, but out to 64 is the maximum.

Quite a bit has changed in the hunting world while I have been in my own world repeating success doing the same thing the same way with the same gear.
Admittedly, my gun is heavy. My buddy said he had to carry it he would quit hunting.

What do these mighty mite guns weigh in at with a scope or red dot and sling?
How is the recoil? (Like everyone no notice when shooting a turkey.)
It would seem likely that quite a heavy charge would be necessary to push that dense load.

At this point in life I hope to wear out my gear, shoot all of my ammo, lose all of my arrows, and fishing tackle, and have some great adventures before cashing in. A new gun probably is not in my future, nah that won’t happen. I don’t need any more guns, unless it is a vintage Ruger No. 1, a vintage JM Marlin, or a beauty Sako, or a fine Anschutz, or …….
I may need to look for a Remington 1187 youth 20 gauge turkey gun.

Honestly, I would love to see one of your 20s in action.
They sound like quite a lightweight surgical tool for the running and gunning that I used to do.
Too bad we are all so far apart.

For 2022, our turkey numbers are so low, the state reduced the spring tom limit from 2 to 1 bird. That will be a short season for me. Although after I tag out, I have taken others out to get a bird. Probably won’t this year to not put pressure on the birds.

How are your bird numbers? Spring of 2016 was horrible here, very few birds. Hunted hard for almost no action. That was the first time I thought Turkey hunting could be boring and pointless. Hunted many locations. After weeks of hard hunting and hiking, around 10:00 I was getting a drink from my pack and blew it on a silent tom - turned around and he was standing at 20 yards giving me the middle feather. 2017 much better. 2018-19 were outstanding. Frequently the first call off the roost would decoy 6-8 hens and a a few jakes and 6-8 toms. Of course they would split up as the morning progressed. 2020 we had average numbers. 2021 again low numbers.

I wouldn't pay 84 bucks for 5 shells either. Apex and Foxtrot sell them every day for 45-50 bucks for 5 shells. Still expensive, that's why I load my own

It seems like last turkey season our bird numbers were way down. We are allowed two birds here but they can't be harvested on the same day. So you better have a clear lane if there are two gobblers!

This year I've seen many more turkeys in my area. It seems like they had a much better hatch this year. Hopefully it turns out to be a good season. Good luck this year!

All this talk and numbers on paper with pellet weight and the killing distance ect. Is what's feeding the fire on a bunch of states looking to ban it for turkey hunting and they are going to the point that u all brag about how deadly it is, it's getting worked in as a safety hazard now wink wink

Tess is one of the factor that is listed as a population decline with the extended ( very) range to kill and it is putting more ppl our who just can't kill a bird with out bush wack it or they don't know how to hunt them or call them. I yes I believe that them shells have some to do with it along with more nest raiders out there from way less trapping
But if a paper full of hols does it for u go ahead o and by the way if u do your job as a turkey hunter and call them in to 30 yard and under u can use lead in a 410 a 20 ga and a 12 so I don't buy the less recoil crap I'm 52 and been hunting since I was 12 the man that mentor me handed me a 410 for my first couple of birds no tss back then bit wow I killed a few birds hmm did it with a 20 ga back then to hmm u can find a Millon reasons to justify it but the bottom line is u got wrapped up in the hype and the videos more power to ya I'll shoot my outdated non killing cheap lead and I'll still kill 6 to 10 of them birds a year in different states and just smile and thank the Lord and my mentor Jim that showed me the love of the bird and respect of it

That, and the fact that the TSS is a smaller diameter and doesn't flatten or deform. It drives and loses far less energy to expansion or deformation.