Fur Handling Forum


No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum


~Dobbins' Catalog~

>
pcsoutdoors
(Please support PCS Outdoors, our sponsor for the Fur Handling Forum Page)


Print Thread
Hop To
Veg tanning #7571155
04/27/22 05:33 PM
04/27/22 05:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
ToCatchAPredator Offline OP
trapper
ToCatchAPredator  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
Was reading the archives and read bocos alum tanning. Got further into archives and reading more about into chrome/ veg tanning to really help with moisture for garment fur. Have some beavers/coon alum tanned and stored in the freezer while my hand heals from surgery. Was looking to possibly add this step into the tanning before I proceed with the Nutan advanced tanning oil on the coons/ 1 muskrat and the deer hunters and trappers hide tanning formula on the beavers.

So I read that veg tanning is done with logwood dye crystals (quebracho). My question is can I just get quebracho extract powder or does it have to be the trapping logwood dye crystals?

Thanks

Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7572280
04/28/22 10:17 PM
04/28/22 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 298
Ohio
Keith Daniels Offline
trapper
Keith Daniels  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 298
Ohio
If your skins have already been done in Alum I doubt your veg tan will do anything other than give it a stain/color. I'd suggest starting with fresh skins and get the veg tan instead of using logwood.


Keith Daniels
Retired OSTA President as of 4:50 P M 9/12/20
Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7572327
04/28/22 11:15 PM
04/28/22 11:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
The brown logwood powder is quebracho.You dont want the black crystals.Quebracho is available from places that sell tanning supplies as it is a commercial vegetable tanning agent used in the leather industry.It will be cheaper to buy from a tanning supply in bulk than getting the 1 lb bags sold for dying traps.
A straight vegtan wont work on a fresh furskinskin.it takes way too long for the tannins to penetrate the skin.Months on a thick skin.The hair will fall out before the tannins have penetrated the skin
Aluminum sulfate/salt tawed first and then veg tanning after will allow quicker penetration with no chance of putrefaction of the hair follicles.You can also do a combination tan with aluminum sulfate/salt and a tannin in the same solution.I have had better results with thick skins doing it in two steps. A combination solution works good on thinner skins.You can also apply a combination solution as a paste tan.I have done a couple small bears that way.
Make sure you check the skin to make sure the tannins have penetrated all the way thru the skin.
This will give you a veg tanned leather on a fur skin.There is less stretch when a skin is veg tanned but you get an extremely durable long lasting leather that holds up better than commercially tanned furs for hard use like work mitts etc.
You will notice a big difference in the character of the leather after veg tanning.
You can also veg tan a soap/brain tanned skin.
Veg tanning imparts a permanent change in the skin and will permanently change the colour of light colored fur

Last edited by Boco; 04/28/22 11:21 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7573065
04/29/22 10:08 PM
04/29/22 10:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 298
Ohio
Keith Daniels Offline
trapper
Keith Daniels  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 298
Ohio
Boco, veg will not work on a skin that has already been properly dressed in alum. The fiber structure has already been altered and the veg will accomplish nothing of importance other than staining the fibers.

Veg can be used on fresh skins, I used to see a man every year at the Indiana taxidermy shows that did furs with veg, he put a lot of time and effort into the skins and did a fine job on them. You're not pit tanning thick cattle hides; fur skins will tan much quicker and as long as you hold the pH there will be no problem with the fur.

The OP refers to veg/chrome, which we all know are two completely different things, and is asking about moisture, so assuming he wants to make them somewhat water resistance. Veg tan needs stuffed with waxes then glazed to achieve a good water resistance, chrome leathers have their own methods for setting dyes and water resistance. Obviously the thicker any skin is the more it will take to wet it up to the point of leaking through, even with nothing other than the use of any good reacted commercial oil for dressing and topped with a basic silicone finish glaze.


Keith Daniels
Retired OSTA President as of 4:50 P M 9/12/20
Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7573764
04/30/22 07:44 PM
04/30/22 07:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
I have veg tanned alum tawed skins for years both combination and re tanned. they are definitely veg tanned,can be tooled like any veg tanned leather and do not break down in water like a tawed skin.And they will pass the "tanning test"The reason it works is because a tawed skin is not tanned in the true sense whereas a veg tan will replace the mineral tan as it leaches out when retanning takes place.I have used beaver and otter mitts veg tanned this way for work on the railroad-they were tougher than any other leather mitt I ever used.
You need a bit of experience so as not to get a "surface" veg tan due to case hardening during the initial penetration.

Last edited by Boco; 04/30/22 07:49 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Veg tanning [Re: Boco] #7578985
05/07/22 08:39 AM
05/07/22 08:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
ToCatchAPredator Offline OP
trapper
ToCatchAPredator  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
Originally Posted by Boco
I have veg tanned alum tawed skins for years both combination and re tanned. they are definitely veg tanned,can be tooled like any veg tanned leather and do not break down in water like a tawed skin.And they will pass the "tanning test"The reason it works is because a tawed skin is not tanned in the true sense whereas a veg tan will replace the mineral tan as it leaches out when retanning takes place.I have used beaver and otter mitts veg tanned this way for work on the railroad-they were tougher than any other leather mitt I ever used.
You need a bit of experience so as not to get a "surface" veg tan due to case hardening during the initial penetration.



What would you say I should do as being novice and first year tanning. I have a couple wall hangers that the alum and commercial tanning solution will be just fine for me. But there are a couple of beavers that I’d like to do something with garment wise and I have a deer hide in my freezer in looking to tan for leather for garments too. Just looking for something suitable for winter/snow weather. Something for my wife for when we go ice fishing.

Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7579068
05/07/22 09:36 AM
05/07/22 09:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
You can use a complexed aluminum tan like Lutan or KT tan-these are called syntans and produce decent garment leather on fur if done correctly.
I am sure there are a bunch of others available also from the tanning supply companys.You might have to try a few out to see which works best for you.I have had good results with the KT tan.
Veg tan is great for mitts,but not the best for hats if using beaver.
I make beaver hats and send all my larger beaver to a commercial tanner.They do a nice job on uniformly thinning the leather on the big beaver which tend to have very heavy leather.You can do it in a home tan but I get many skins tanned and it is too time consuming for me to do a lot of large beaver.
I do some that I want for work mitts that require a thicker leather.

Last edited by Boco; 05/07/22 09:36 AM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Veg tanning [Re: Boco] #7579091
05/07/22 10:01 AM
05/07/22 10:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
ToCatchAPredator Offline OP
trapper
ToCatchAPredator  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
So Boco, would you say that a deer hide would treat similar to a beaver would given the general thickness?

Also, opposed to a veg tan, how would I make an alum tan with commercial tanning oil water resistant (sweat, light moisture) for a hat?

Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7579390
05/07/22 07:01 PM
05/07/22 07:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
Deer leather(hair on or hair off) is a lot easier to tan then beaver leather.
The loose and open structure of the fibre makes deer one of the easiest of leathers to tan.
Beaver has a very dense fibre in comparison.
Veg tanning an acid(aluminum sulfate/salt) tanned deer hide makes very tough and durable leather.I made some extremely strong laces from acid tanned deer hide that was re-tanned with quebracho tannins.
The only way I can think of to make acid tanned leather suitable for garment use where moisture will be an issue would maybe be to smoke it like an indian braintanned skin.

That is just a guess as I have only smoked brain/soap tanned hides with hair removed.
It is something you could experiment with.

Last edited by Boco; 05/07/22 07:08 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7579424
05/07/22 08:07 PM
05/07/22 08:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
ToCatchAPredator Offline OP
trapper
ToCatchAPredator  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
Boco where do you get your tanning supplies. I ordered my tanning solution from Amazon with a gift card I had (only reason I was willing to pay as much as I did on there). I don’t see and quebracho on FNT post. Was curious if there’s a website or supply catalog that you order from

Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7579818
05/08/22 10:44 AM
05/08/22 10:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
I used to order from different mail order places.
last batch of stuff I ordered was from Halford in edmonton but they dont carry tanning stuff no more.
There is a place in quebec that has a lot of tanning stuff,I have a brochure somewhere,but I still have enough stuff on hand for a while.

I have seen a place on line from the USA that seems to have a lot of tanning stuff available-it is called Rittel's.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Veg tanning [Re: Boco] #7579883
05/08/22 01:10 PM
05/08/22 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
ToCatchAPredator Offline OP
trapper
ToCatchAPredator  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 558
Catskills, New York
Thanks Boco, I’ll have to check Rittels out. I appreciate all of your knowledge and help

Re: Veg tanning [Re: ToCatchAPredator] #7579938
05/08/22 03:08 PM
05/08/22 03:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Offline
trapper
Boco  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,261
james bay frontierOnt.
There is a lot of stuff out there both natural and boughten.
I really like to experiment with different tanning methods,but have settled on a couple that produce what I need.
The attraction to home tanning for me has always been in the experimentation throughout the process and developing my own techniques for different applications.
I always seemed to have enough lower value/dmg skins of different species on hand to play with without being bummed when something didnt work out.

The best way to develop tanning skills is definitely hands on-doing it.

When learning keep detailed notes on what you do so when you get that perfect result you are after you can repeat it.
When experimenting,some seemingly small variations in the process can have dramatic results both good and bad.

Last edited by Boco; 05/08/22 03:12 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1