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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: Posco] #7615705
06/29/22 09:23 PM
06/29/22 09:23 PM
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Posts: 2,669
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I would never claim a faith wasn't Christian, unless they themselves professed they weren't Christian.

How arrogant.

The ones who think they know the most, know the least...The "educated" know it alls are below the very least believers who continually seek, are humble, and have pure hearts.


I was in a garage the other day and the owner asked me if I had ever seen a counterfeit $20 bill. I told him I hadn't and he proceeded to show me one. His wife had taken in four of them at the same time. At a glance they looked legit but upon closer inspection the fraud was obvious. Kind of what we're talking about here. Comparing a counterfeit to the genuine thing. Nothing arrogant about it.


John 3:16, if you believe in him that's all it takes...There will be Mormons and Jehova Witness in Heaven....To say there will be non christians in heaven is absurd, now who is counterfeit?


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615707
06/29/22 09:25 PM
06/29/22 09:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 8,813
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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I don't doubt there will be few who dig out the truth for themselves, but that will despite of, not because of those teachings.

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: Posco] #7615712
06/29/22 09:28 PM
06/29/22 09:28 PM
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Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Originally Posted by Posco
I don't doubt there will be few who dig out the truth for themselves, but that will despite of, not because of those teachings.

So you don't believe many Mormons or JW believe in Christ?


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615751
06/29/22 10:08 PM
06/29/22 10:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,013
Three Lakes,WI 71
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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: corky] #7615795
06/29/22 10:49 PM
06/29/22 10:49 PM
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Idaho Falls, ID
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If this is true, the Pope is a despicable man.

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: Posco] #7615874
06/30/22 05:52 AM
06/30/22 05:52 AM
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Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
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Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by Mark June
The "Roman" Catholic Church is in no way heretical and neither is the Pope.


Pardon me if I'm mistaken but I believe I've seen you claim you hold to reformed theology. You can't claim to hold to reformed theology and still make a statement like that. The reformers themselves considered the pope to be the antichrist, or at the very least, an antichrist.

I know some modern evangelicals have declared a truce with Rome but it's to their own detriment. I don't consider Roman Catholicism to be a different denomination, it's an altogether different religion.

Feel free to discuss at length.


In Theology, there is a history and as far as Christian historical theology (Theology = discussion of God) there has been a VERY lengthy and robust discussion, up to and including death, over doctrine.
But doctrine has survived, all based on revelation (Creation/Scripture/Jesus Christ) for quite some time and there are core doctrines of Christianity that are set in stone as they say. Theologians have embraced these or not, and whether a religion is Christian or not is set upon them.

They are;
The Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The full deity of Christ - The Son is fully God and fully human
The Spiritual lostness of the human race - None are righteous, no not one.
The substitutionary atonement and bodily resurrection of Christ - For our sake and for us sinners
Salvation by Grace alone - God's Will be done
The physical return of Christ - the 2nd Coming
The authority and inerrancy of Scripture - the Bible is the Revelation of God.

The Catholics have not subtracted anything from this list (heresy) but have added to this list, which is not considered in Theology as heresy, but rather heterodoxy.
Yes, I am of the Reformed Theology camp, and I serve alongside RC priests in what I do, and we have some good jabs at each other but we fully realize we are brothers and sisters.
I tell em they coulda stopped with 2 sacraments and can always pray straight away to Christ and pull back from the Mariology...
They jab at me that us Evangelical Reformers have fallen in love with our Bibles and outta love the One who wrote it!
All of that is fair.
We're all human and we're all Christians.
As an example, the Church of Pakistan is NOW the merging of ALL denominations of Christianity in response to the brutal persecution of Christians in that country. LDS's and JW's are not included in that merging as they are aberrant faiths (they do not adhere to the core doctrines of Christianity.
The recommendation to merge all denominations came interestingly enough from.... Europe and America.... where we can't do that ourselves.
Not enough persecution here is my guess.

And you'd have to point me to a Reformer that believed the Pope was the Anti-Christ. I'm not aware that Luther, Calvin, Bucer, or Zwingli held that view. They held, and I agree, that the Western Church, schism (split) from the East in 1054, had ventured much too far from the Apostolic teachings. Corruption has breed itself into the core of the Western Church and so in the 16th century, the Western Church schism occurred along with the "Protesters" who "Reformed" the Church towards its ancient beginnings (doctrine).
Thus the Protestants and the RC's emerged.

Hope this clarifies Posco.
There have been countless predictions as to the 2nd Coming, who is the Anti-Christ and on and on and ALL OF IT is no good for the faith.
We'll know when the Son of Man returns. Jesus assured us of that.

Blessings,
Mark



Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #7615876
06/30/22 06:04 AM
06/30/22 06:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,680
Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
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Mark June  Offline
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Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I would never claim a faith wasn't Christian, unless they themselves professed they weren't Christian.

How arrogant.

The ones who think they know the most, know the least...The "educated" know it alls are below the very least believers who continually seek, are humble, and have pure hearts.



Nice try KY.
Studying the history of faith helps to find out what is what. An anti-intellgentism is sweeping the land as people plant their banners in surface level talking points. But the Mormons have a history and you can study it if you want. Or not.

It's their faith and they can do what they want but they aren't considered Christians. Not in the realm of theology doctrine. They are known as polytheists because they believe, according the Joesph Smith's well known writings, that the Godhead are separate gods.

Now does the Church flaunt this and speak about it and such? No. Because they are well known as setting up shop and recruiting Christinas. Having "Apostle" leadership is enticing of course, but the definition of an Apostle in Theology is one who has seen the Risen Lord....
And none alive since 33AD have.

So the average goer to the CLDS gathering thinks they are attending a Christian faith based group.
I've asked MANY Mormons about their church doctrine - which is there is no Triune God - and I can't remember any of them even knowing that about their church.
Look up Beaver Island here in MI sometime and you will get a better glimpse of the founders of that faith.

Great folks by the way. Always seem real nice. Just lost.
Study doctrine KY and leave the calling of others as arrogant home.
It serves no worthy purpose.

If you want to dive deeper all of these aberrant doctrines can be found of the official Mormon website;
It's a LONG List of non-Christian beliefs.


- The Bible has many errors, changes, and omissions and must be understood using the Mormon scriptures as explained by the LDS Churchís prophets.
- God the Father was once a man like us but is now God, our Heavenly Father.
- We are all eternal, uncreated spirits who became the literal offspring of our Heavenly Father and Mother.
- Jesus Christ was the firstborn spirit son of our heavenly parents and is the literal elder spirit brother of all of their other spirit children, including Lucifer (Satan). He became a God in heaven before becoming a mortal man.
- The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods with three separate bodies (the first two of flesh and bone, the third of spirit).
- Jesus Christ organized this world with the help of others, under the direction of Heavenly Father and the Council of the Gods; his helpers included Adam and perhaps Joseph Smith.
- Adam and Eveís act of eating the forbidden fruit was not a sin, but was a noble deed that was necessary for the blessing of the human race.
- Heavenly Father, himself an immortal, physical man, ďsiredĒ the physical body of Jesus Christ through his mortal mother Mary so that Jesus became his literal, only-begotten Son in the flesh when he was born on earth.
- Salvation in the sense of immortal, glorified physical life is guaranteed for virtually all people, including those who reject Jesus Christ in this life, by Christís suffering, death, and resurrection.
- Only those who accept the LDS faith and obey its requirements will be saved to live in the presence of Heavenly Father.
- Joseph Smith is the Prophet of the Restoration, who did more for mankindís salvation than anyone besides Jesus Christ.
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church, and its priesthood and ordinances are necessary for entrance into Godís presence in the celestial kingdom.
- Faithful Mormons may become Gods, meaning that they can become all-powerful beings that make and rule their own worlds.


I'd say, as many do, that Mormon aberrance sways into cult like.
Blessings
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615880
06/30/22 06:12 AM
06/30/22 06:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,669
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Okay Mark, Let's assume you know what your talking about, Do you believe there will be any JW or Mormons in Heaven?


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615882
06/30/22 06:14 AM
06/30/22 06:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline OP
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What does any of that have to do with a member of the clergy preaching politics?

I see where there is more stuff going on with clergy that are pedophiles and cover-up by church hierarchy too. In multiple brands.

So why are they not being taxed?????????????? All charity is exempt. Only profit and property being taxed. If these "I am better and smarter, a special person who speaks for god" types are tax exempt why are the rest of us not exempt?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615885
06/30/22 06:18 AM
06/30/22 06:18 AM
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Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
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Originally Posted by danny clifton
What does any of that have to do with a member of the clergy preaching politics?

I see where there is more stuff going on with clergy that are pedophiles and cover-up by church hierarchy too. In multiple brands.

So why are they not being taxed?????????????? All charity is exempt. Only profit and property being taxed. If these "I am better and smarter, a special person who speaks for god" types are tax exempt why are the rest of us not exempt?


Iz just answering Q's danny.
wink

Heck, give Caesar what is Caesar's if that's what you want. Jesus taught it.
Tax code should NEVER steer the pulpit, but the pulpit has no need to preach division.


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: ky_coyote_hunter] #7615888
06/30/22 06:24 AM
06/30/22 06:24 AM
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Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
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Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
Okay Mark, Let's assume you know what your talking about, Do you believe there will be any JW or Mormons in Heaven?


I do know what I'm talking about whistle because it's published and taught by others so we can "see" it.

I'm an exclusivist in theological terms meaning, as Jesus taught, there is one and only one way to Heaven, and the Hope of Resurrection to come.....

Christ.
The Son of God.
Who is God.

Which isn't what Mormonism teaches.

Exclusivism isn't popular here in 2022 as everyone should get the trophy...
but God had no need to send the Son to seek and save what was lost if everyone, everyone, everyone is already saved.
Any Q's, seek Scripture. It's all in there.
For us to know.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615896
06/30/22 06:30 AM
06/30/22 06:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,669
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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So there is exclusivity in how you believe in Christ to get to Heaven?....I thought it was whosoever believes?

Oh, and were not exclusively talking about Mormons, JH witness were mentioned too.

Last edited by ky_coyote_hunter; 06/30/22 06:33 AM.

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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615898
06/30/22 06:37 AM
06/30/22 06:37 AM
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Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
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Yep ^^^^^^ that'd be whosever believes that I AM who they say I AM, the Son of God, Who is fully God and fully human.
The Trinity is not in any dispute Ky. By any Christian denomination.
But aberrant faiths (Smith) didn't accept it.
OK.
All of us make choices.

The Mormon doctrine is related to Jesus as being; "Jesus Christ was the firstborn spirit son of our heavenly parents and is the literal elder spirit brother of all of their other spirit children, including Lucifer (Satan). He became a God in heaven before becoming a mortal man."

^^^^^^^ This isn't Christian KY. Shoot me if you wish. Kill the messenger but the message remains.
Maybe you didn't know this.

Polytheism is the belief in multiple gods and is as old as man. LDS's are cast from that mold. Same as Arianism (JW's)....
because they both don't accept the doctrines of Christianity.



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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615900
06/30/22 06:41 AM
06/30/22 06:41 AM
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Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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John 3:16 says whosoever believes in him (Jesus Christ) will not perish and have everlasting life, it doesn't say who believes in the makeup (or not) of the trinity, or what faith you are.

Last edited by ky_coyote_hunter; 06/30/22 06:43 AM.

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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615902
06/30/22 06:45 AM
06/30/22 06:45 AM
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Mark June Offline
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Define "him" is key here ky.
I support people who believe Jesus is.... heck, I can't tell you all the stories I hear....
99.98% non-Christian.

Oh well.
Believe what you want.
I'm not selling anything.
But I know the doctrines of Christianity which you toss around as if they are of no use to us.
I disagree.
They ARE the faith on which we stand.
Built for a reason and paid for with a price we cannot pay.
No matter how many doors we knock on and give out literature and dress nice.

Blessings,
Mark


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615913
06/30/22 07:01 AM
06/30/22 07:01 AM
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Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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I'm not coming down on you Mark, not at all, appreciate your efforts and believe your solid...I'm going to tell you how I see it here...

It doesn't matter so much if people don't choose brand A of this or that faith, what does matter is them seeking him (Christ) the content of their hearts, repentance, contrite spirit, being humble and that they believe in Jesus Christ with all their hearts.

I absolutely believe there will be JW and LDS in Heaven, they are your brothers and sisters in Christ....Now you might not see it that way, but I do....And unless someone specifically tells me they don't believe in Christ there is no way I take it on myself to have the authority to say otherwise.

I do see saying someone isn't Christian, when they believe in their heart Christ is their saviour as arrogant, just as telling someone they are going to hades is also...I don't have that authority, and neither do you, IMO.

As you say, don't shoot the messenger, none of us are enemies here, we're all seeking, always seeking.


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615918
06/30/22 07:08 AM
06/30/22 07:08 AM
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Texas - Michigan
Mark June Offline
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If you'd like, I'll start another thread tomorrow and we can chat as we highjacked friend danny's thread and when he sees me I won't get a hug.

What we all believe as individuals is key, but what God revealed to us for that to happen is bigger by far.


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615922
06/30/22 07:14 AM
06/30/22 07:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,669
Kentucky
ky_coyote_hunter Offline
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Sorry Danny, Mark and I have a history with this stuff wink...No new thread necessary Mark, I know where your coming from, and your right Mark about all this being bigger by far.

In fact much bigger, you can hug Danny now, no don't!, Lol.


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Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7615962
06/30/22 07:52 AM
06/30/22 07:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,867
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline OP
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I will pass on the hug. Been told you smell funny


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control [Re: danny clifton] #7616030
06/30/22 08:52 AM
06/30/22 08:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
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Maine, Aroostook
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