I got jazzed up about our native american elderberries a couple of years ago and started a project to raise elderberries for nursery stock (and berries). I decided to grow ten different named cultivars that are grown primarily in the midwest and the northeast (and Canada). I got most of my starts either from the U. of Missouri, or the USDA germplasm repository in Corvallis. Oregon.

I contracted with a tissue culture lab in Washington to produce the plantlets. But first I had them all tested for viruses at a plant pathology lab. Tissue-culture is the way most berry plants are produced in the modern era. The procedure tends to eliminate the passing of viruses and other diseases. One small plant can produce tens of thousands of starts in a pretty short time. I have about 4000 starts produced so far and anther 16,000 in the works.

Some pics:

This variety is a seedling of the European variety of Sambucus "Haschberg". It was discovered in a planting in Oklahoma and named "Marge".

The first row of "Bob Gordon" planted last year. Rabbiteye blueberries in the foreground.

A nice Bob Gordon flowerhead (or cyme). This one is 15" accross.

Our plan is to produce cutting materials from these rows and so they will be coppiced to the ground every winter.

Anyway, thought I would share a little bit about the project. We think we are the only nursery to tissue culture native american elderberries in this country. At least the only one I'm aware of. Our nursery stock will be available by next year. It will be certified organic stock.

Carl, could they use the same technology they use to make virus free elderberry bushes to make virus free American chestnut trees?

Keith

Yes, absolutely. But chances are there are still enough spores floating around that they get infected anyway; unless you're hundreds and hundreds of miles away from infected stumps. BTW, i believe the causual organism for american chestnut blight is a fungus.

How are those eastern elderberrys different than those blue elderberrys we have here in the west?
I never have figured out what red elderberrys are good for other than bandtail pigeon forage.

This has really turned into a passion for you- great to see!

True enough that elderberries carry small amounts of cyanide glucosides. Mostly in the stems and leaves but a tiny amount in the fruit. Cooking removes it I'm told.

There hasn't been much research done on the blue elderberry we have out here in the west (Sambucus caerulea but it seems to have benefits and uses equal of that of the black elderberry native to the eastern half of the country S. nigra canadensis.

On the other hand the red elderberry that is found in Oregon and Washington has toxic fruit and should not be eaten.

they are getting past the flower stage here. a few are upside down already. wild berries. grow everywhere around here. amazes me how many people dont know what they are

I've been picking elderberries for about 2 weeks here.

Keith

If you let them take tree form they seem to ripen earlier. We are cutting ours back to the ground every year and cropping the suckers. That makes them a little later I think. The pictures I took were from earlier today. Still lots of fresh bloom but some are already green berries.

Call, put me on the list to get a plant. Bob maier

So do they fruit like a blueberry plant? Is production dependent on the species? Do you fertilize them like a blackberry or a blueberry?

Looking to grow some depending on production. Wife likes elderberry very much for medicinal purposes.

We live in zone 7a.

I will fully acknowledge that I'm in learning mode myself on this new-to-me crop. From what I understand elders like a pH from slightly acidic to a little alkaline. They like moderate fertilizer and a fair amount of water. They actually seem to do well in a lot of marginal soils. Average production at reduced spacings are around 4-6 lbs per plant. Keith C will tell you that his Ohio tree "Remembrance" produces a lot more than that. Some of that has to be the size of the tree. Most of the commercial guys prune back pretty hard therefore have smaller more densely spaced plantings.

Bowhunter, I'm also in 7a.

We have a couple of patches of wild ones. My wife picked then every year if she beats the birds to them.

Wonderful project and I wish you continued success!

I was raised on eastern elderberry jelly and pie.
The poison never got me.

We had a lot of them around our lake. Way more than 10 families could use. A guy with a commercial bakery asked to pick them for pies. He did not offer to pay anything. We said yes if you give us back 2 pies loaded with fruit. He had a crew pick them all. 20 years later we are still waiting on the pie.

Ours aren't quite ripe yet.Another week or two.Cant wait for my wifes elderberry cream cheese pie.

Very Awesome

I've eaten elderberrys raw right off the plant for years, if there is any toxin in there it must be very very small as to be insignificant.

Wild ones abound here and this red soil is about as poor as you can find. Heads are around 6 to 10 inches and they seem to grow in among the black berries.

They grow fairly well here in wet soil.

OK,,Elerberries full bore here now.Wife just made three Elderberry Cream Cheese Pies,,and I just made a gallon of Elderberry Syrup and got two quarts of Elderberry Tincture going that will be done in 8 weeks.

Is that what they make Sambuca out of?

Sambuca has anise in it always, but sometimes has elderberry in it. Both anise and elderberry were thought to have magical properties in Italy and most of Europe. Traditionally, Port often had elderberry added to it too.

Keith

Sambucus is the genus name for elderberries.

Yeah you are not really doing good things for genetics but I understand. The thing about elderberries is that every berry and every bunch will produce genetically different plants. So for elderberry if you see a cluster that is loaded down and all of the berries ripen at the same time, you may want to clone that one.
I actually stay away from any cultivated varities, they have been bred so much I like different. We have been gathering here for the past 2 weeks, but I will start 5-10 from seed and see what we get. Coral bean, PawPaw, Persimmon, Beautyberry, Farkleberry, Fox Grape, Muscadine, Scuppernong, Blueberry, Red Mulberry and a bunch of others what I got going on right now. For elderberries if anybody wants to eat them, you just test it because everybody is different. Most down here will only eat them after they are cooked, but as Beaverpeeler pointed out they are great. Nice project, glad to see.

Elderberrys make real good wine.

Wife has made EB jam for years and I have eaten it for years, Maybe thats whats wrong with me.

good read thanks guys

Vert interestung beaverpeeler but Heck i got all kinds a sprouts round here i xan send ya.

I make lderberry jelly. Its my daughtets favorite helly.

I dug these up

Excellent, that's a big patch you got growing.

I just found a couple small patches today when I was out scouting. Lots of real dark purple fruit.

How would one go about planting seeds from these trees, plant the whole berry or remove and dry the seeds?

Elderberry seeds are supposed to take a long time to stratify. I have found if you just bury the ripe berries under a little light soil and leave them alone over Winter, many will grow.

Cuttings are a much quicker way to propagate elderberries. Elderberry cuttings taken and planted in the Spring have a pretty close to 100% rooting success, even if not given a lot of attention.

I had 2 cuttings that I thought were to small to send to 330 back in the Spring, that only had 2 leaf nodes. I just stuck them in the base of a 55 gallon drum with dirt and manure. They are 3' in diameter now.

As long as I remember to occasionally water them, almost all of the cuttings I have planted have become bushes.



Keith

What hormone do you guys use to propagate? I'm rather interested.

That's awesome. I only have the native elderberry variety on my farm. I picked another 5gal bucket of berries yesterday. I do enjoy making elderberry wine, syrup, and gummies. Curious though, do the other varieties have more medicinal properties? or are there varieties better for wine?

Good deal, Thanks!

I assume you cut in spring b4 leaves show up?

Can you describe your cutting process, as if you were talking to a 5 year old? lol Like best size and part of plant to cut etc...

For the last few years, I have been cutting off pieces of elderberry, from 1 and 2 year old wood growth, with 3 leaf nodes. I've been cutting them when the leaves are fairly well budded to fully open, but small. I make the lowest cut at an around 45 degree angle and the top cut flat. I push the cuttings into soil with the middle node just slightly below the surface. The cuttings put out shoots from both the highest node and the one just below the dirt. No rooting hormone is needed. Usually 100% of the cuttings will root. Besides keeping the dirt fairly moist, they receive no other care.

This year, I stuck 2, 2 leaf node cuttings in with the top node just barely above the ground. They out performed in growth the few 3 node cuttings I planted this year, by a lot. The difference could have been the soil I put them in, which had a lot of rabbit manure and coffee grounds, but next year I am going to try planting a lot of 2 leaf node cuttings.

The cuttings will flower and fruit, after flowering, their first year, if you don't remove the flowers. They grow better if you remove the flowers.

My main bush showed up by a down spout in 2012 or 2013. I recognized it as elderberry and decided to leave it. I ended up mowing it once and one of the dogs or one of us broke it off, at least twice, but it kept growing back. It's now roughly 14' by 16'. It gets around 60 pounds of fruited heads every year. I have sent out a few hundred clones of it and sold and given away a couple hundred rooted cuttings of it. It appears to be a naturally superior variety to the rest of the wild elderberry bushes in my area.

Beaverpeeler, Carl, donated cuttings from her to the National Germplasm Depository in Corvalis, Oregon, where they now grow her. I got to name my variety at the depository. i named my elderberry bush Remembrance after the elderberry dryad in the Hans Christian Anderson story, "The Little Elder Mother".

Keith

Wow! Thats cool!


Wow, that's cool!

Do you figure I will fair as well with just regular wild cuttings or should I just try to order some?

The wild cuttings will very likely root just as easily. They may or may not be as productive as some of the named varieties. I would take cuttings from the most productive bushes you find.

If you want some cuttings from Remembrance, I'll give you some for free in the Spring, if you just pay the shipping. A fair number of guys on Trapperman are growing cuttings from her now.

Keith

I'll take you up on that Keith! I remember my Grandma always making Elderberry jelly and wine. I make Mulberry jelly, jam and syrup now but would love to bring back her old tradition!

Keith, if you happen to look at this old thread again I'm currently at the River Hills Elderberry Conference in Columbia, Mo. Very interesting day of presentations on black elderberries. There is a gal doing some elderberry breeding work with a group called the "Savanna Institute" and she has heard of your cultivar "Remembrance" and would like to add it to her collection for potential breeding stock. Any chance you could help her out with a plant or two?

Carl, please give the woman with the Savanna Institute my contact information.

I wish I could get off the farm long enough to go the conference.

I believe Remembrance is being grown in 37 states now. I shipped out a great many cuttings and sold a lot of rooted clones at Quailcon last year, to people from all over the US. I have not heard back from many people, but she seems to do particularly well in Northern states like Wisconsin and Minnesota. They get much quicker growth there than here where Remembrance originated.

I sent 6 rooted cuttings of Remembrance to Dan Hartmann the owner of Hartmann's Plant Company a few weeks ago. If it tests well, he may offer virus free clones in the future, with my name as the discoverer.

I know you're not fond of mulberry, thinking that it has the sugar, but lacks the interesting flavonoids. I have around 400 mulberry trees on my farm. I limped around and tried most of them this year, that were bearing. I have found 4 trees I really like the flavor of, with one clear winner of the 4. If you want, I'll send you some mulberry cuttings, that I think you may be pleasantly surprised by the flavor of. Of course location, soil type and rainfall can cause variation in the same tree's produce.

I plan on sampling and seeing how much fruit the local and not so local, wild elderberry bushes grow this year. There's some short, around 4' high, very prolific looking, elderberry bushes, I am keeping an eye on.

I hope you have fun, learn and make some great contacts at the conference.

Keith

Keith, if you don't mind PM me again your contact info and I'll give that to her tomorrow.

BTW, I am having a blast. Learning lots of stuff about elderberries from the experts and other growers. One particularly interesting presentation was done on a double blind study showing drinking three table spoons of elderberry juice per day was tamping down inflammation of folks suffering from mild cognitive decline. Inflammation is thought to be a root cause of mental decline.

I am glad you are having a great time.

I sent you a PM.

Keith

Carl, is there a fairly cheap destemmer for elderberry you would recommend?

I picked 21 gallons of heads over the last 3 days. I've been stripping them by hand. It's a lot of work. Next year, I want to have a faster way to do it.

I've just been getting heads off of Remembrance. If I can find an efficient way to strip the heads and a market, I would like to plant a lot of clones of her below my grapes in a small hayfield I no longer need hay from.

Keith

Upstate,

Could you post that recipe for us. I'm just used to making a standard type pie. Thanks.

They're just starting to ripen here. The bushes on the drier ground have fewer and smaller berries this year (a result of the hot, dry weather). Guessing they're going to be a dud... need to look in the lower, wetter places

Keith, you should check out River Hills elderberries. They have a website. He sells a small handheld stainless steel de-stemmer that sells for about $500. One of the farmers that I met at the conference two years ago has one and processes an acre's worth every year with it.

It's not as nice as the $10,000 one but gets the job done.

That is what I notice. Black elderberries need a lot of water to be juicy.

If anybody needs elderberry plants I know Keith has some and I also have available at this time the following cultivars:

Wyldewood, Bob Gordon, York, Ranch, Pocahontas, Marge, and Haschberg. Have Ozark coming in October. $10 per plant plus shipping

Marge and Haschberg are European black elders, the rest are all North American black elderberries.

And here I was thinking I was some sort of a champion with my little bottle of rooting hormone and propagating everything I see.
Once again Carl puts me to shame!
I have two different types of blueberry cuttings (hardwood) that are still green from last winter. Like roses, the different types seem to be easier to propagate. Also tried my hand at Figs (got all 6 to take).
The fist step is admitting that I have a problem. I must have 50 different plants on my back patio (on a drip line) that I have rooted up that have no place to go and yet reading this I want to go get some elderberry!

Carl has high tech elderberry clones. He has them rendered virus free, by heat, in a lab and then started as tiny cell cultures.

This year, I just stuck around 1800, 2 or 3 leaf node cuttings in wet dirt. Elderberry doesn't need any Auxin or other rooting hormone to root well. I get very close to 100% success rate with elderberry cuttings.

Carl, thanks for the information on the destemmer.

Keith

That sounds delicious. Would she share the recipe?

Minz, I would recommend softwood cuttings for blues. Much easier.

Don't put yourself down...sounds like you got it going with your rooting hormones!