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My elderberry project #7645284
08/08/22 04:26 PM
08/08/22 04:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline OP
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
I got jazzed up about our native american elderberries a couple of years ago and started a project to raise elderberries for nursery stock (and berries). I decided to grow ten different named cultivars that are grown primarily in the midwest and the northeast (and Canada). I got most of my starts either from the U. of Missouri, or the USDA germplasm repository in Corvallis. Oregon.

I contracted with a tissue culture lab in Washington to produce the plantlets. But first I had them all tested for viruses at a plant pathology lab. Tissue-culture is the way most berry plants are produced in the modern era. The procedure tends to eliminate the passing of viruses and other diseases. One small plant can produce tens of thousands of starts in a pretty short time. I have about 4000 starts produced so far and anther 16,000 in the works.

Some pics:
[Linked Image]
This variety is a seedling of the European variety of Sambucus "Haschberg". It was discovered in a planting in Oklahoma and named "Marge".
[Linked Image]
The first row of "Bob Gordon" planted last year. Rabbiteye blueberries in the foreground.
[Linked Image]
A nice Bob Gordon flowerhead (or cyme). This one is 15" accross.

Our plan is to produce cutting materials from these rows and so they will be coppiced to the ground every winter.

Anyway, thought I would share a little bit about the project. We think we are the only nursery to tissue culture native american elderberries in this country. At least the only one I'm aware of. Our nursery stock will be available by next year. It will be certified organic stock.


Last edited by beaverpeeler; 08/08/22 04:27 PM.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645287
08/08/22 04:32 PM
08/08/22 04:32 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,540
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Offline
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KeithC  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,540
Champaign County, Ohio.
Carl, could they use the same technology they use to make virus free elderberry bushes to make virus free American chestnut trees?

Keith

Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645305
08/08/22 04:52 PM
08/08/22 04:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline OP
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beaverpeeler  Offline OP
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Oregon
Yes, absolutely. But chances are there are still enough spores floating around that they get infected anyway; unless you're hundreds and hundreds of miles away from infected stumps. BTW, i believe the causual organism for american chestnut blight is a fungus.

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 08/08/22 04:53 PM.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645336
08/08/22 05:34 PM
08/08/22 05:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,154
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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waggler  Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
How are those eastern elderberrys different than those blue elderberrys we have here in the west?
I never have figured out what red elderberrys are good for other than bandtail pigeon forage.

Last edited by waggler; 08/08/22 05:36 PM.

"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645341
08/08/22 05:49 PM
08/08/22 05:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,115
Missouri
K9Wolfer Offline
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K9Wolfer  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,115
Missouri
Be careful elderberryberry can be poisonous

Last edited by K9Wolfer; 08/08/22 05:49 PM.

BMI 2K9Wolfer

Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645349
08/08/22 06:14 PM
08/08/22 06:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,897
Wisconsin
E
Eagleye Offline
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Eagleye  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,897
Wisconsin
This has really turned into a passion for you- great to see!

Re: My elderberry project [Re: K9Wolfer] #7645436
08/08/22 08:11 PM
08/08/22 08:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline OP
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beaverpeeler  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
Originally Posted by K9Wolfer
Be careful elderberryberry can be poisonous

True enough that elderberries carry small amounts of cyanide glucosides. Mostly in the stems and leaves but a tiny amount in the fruit. Cooking removes it I'm told.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: My elderberry project [Re: waggler] #7645447
08/08/22 08:17 PM
08/08/22 08:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline OP
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beaverpeeler  Offline OP
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Posts: 11,005
Oregon
Originally Posted by waggler
How are those eastern elderberrys different than those blue elderberrys we have here in the west?
I never have figured out what red elderberrys are good for other than bandtail pigeon forage.


There hasn't been much research done on the blue elderberry we have out here in the west (Sambucus caerulea but it seems to have benefits and uses equal of that of the black elderberry native to the eastern half of the country S. nigra canadensis.

On the other hand the red elderberry that is found in Oregon and Washington has toxic fruit and should not be eaten.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645519
08/08/22 09:11 PM
08/08/22 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
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williamsburg ks
they are getting past the flower stage here. a few are upside down already. wild berries. grow everywhere around here. amazes me how many people dont know what they are


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645523
08/08/22 09:13 PM
08/08/22 09:13 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,540
Champaign County, Ohio.
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KeithC Offline
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KeithC  Offline
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K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,540
Champaign County, Ohio.
I've been picking elderberries for about 2 weeks here.

Keith

Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645547
08/08/22 09:39 PM
08/08/22 09:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline OP
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beaverpeeler  Offline OP
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Posts: 11,005
Oregon
If you let them take tree form they seem to ripen earlier. We are cutting ours back to the ground every year and cropping the suckers. That makes them a little later I think. The pictures I took were from earlier today. Still lots of fresh bloom but some are already green berries.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645629
08/08/22 11:08 PM
08/08/22 11:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 400
walla walla ,washington
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bob maier Offline
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bob maier  Offline
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Posts: 400
walla walla ,washington
Call, put me on the list to get a plant. Bob maier

Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645636
08/08/22 11:19 PM
08/08/22 11:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,405
NC
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bowhunter27295 Offline
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NC
So do they fruit like a blueberry plant? Is production dependent on the species? Do you fertilize them like a blackberry or a blueberry?

Looking to grow some depending on production. Wife likes elderberry very much for medicinal purposes.

We live in zone 7a.


How many lies will people believe before they realize their own idiocy?
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645651
08/08/22 11:48 PM
08/08/22 11:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,005
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline OP
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beaverpeeler  Offline OP
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Posts: 11,005
Oregon
I will fully acknowledge that I'm in learning mode myself on this new-to-me crop. From what I understand elders like a pH from slightly acidic to a little alkaline. They like moderate fertilizer and a fair amount of water. They actually seem to do well in a lot of marginal soils. Average production at reduced spacings are around 4-6 lbs per plant. Keith C will tell you that his Ohio tree "Remembrance" produces a lot more than that. Some of that has to be the size of the tree. Most of the commercial guys prune back pretty hard therefore have smaller more densely spaced plantings.

Bowhunter, I'm also in 7a.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645661
08/09/22 12:56 AM
08/09/22 12:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 8,866
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Indiana
We have a couple of patches of wild ones. My wife picked then every year if she beats the birds to them.

Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645669
08/09/22 02:26 AM
08/09/22 02:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,672
Ohio
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Willy Firewood Offline
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Posts: 2,672
Ohio
Wonderful project and I wish you continued success!

I was raised on eastern elderberry jelly and pie.
The poison never got me.

We had a lot of them around our lake. Way more than 10 families could use. A guy with a commercial bakery asked to pick them for pies. He did not offer to pay anything. We said yes if you give us back 2 pies loaded with fruit. He had a crew pick them all. 20 years later we are still waiting on the pie.


FRAC LIVES MATTER
Re: My elderberry project [Re: KeithC] #7645749
08/09/22 07:51 AM
08/09/22 07:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,171
ny
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upstateNY Offline
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ny
Originally Posted by KeithC
I've been picking elderberries for about 2 weeks here.

Keith

Ours aren't quite ripe yet.Another week or two.Cant wait for my wifes elderberry cream cheese pie.

Last edited by upstateNY; 08/09/22 10:35 AM.

the wheels of the gods turn very slowly
Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645767
08/09/22 08:21 AM
08/09/22 08:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 62,661
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

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Minnesota
Very Awesome


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Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645797
08/09/22 08:56 AM
08/09/22 08:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,922
east central WI
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Dirty D Offline
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Posts: 1,922
east central WI
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler

True enough that elderberries carry small amounts of cyanide glucosides. Mostly in the stems and leaves but a tiny amount in the fruit. Cooking removes it I'm told.


I've eaten elderberrys raw right off the plant for years, if there is any toxin in there it must be very very small as to be insignificant.

Re: My elderberry project [Re: beaverpeeler] #7645900
08/09/22 11:55 AM
08/09/22 11:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,896
Oakland, MS
Drifter Offline
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Oakland, MS
Wild ones abound here and this red soil is about as poor as you can find. Heads are around 6 to 10 inches and they seem to grow in among the black berries.


Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.

Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic









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