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rural life today #7679284
09/26/22 08:51 AM
09/26/22 08:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,133
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,133
williamsburg ks
Is it under deliberate attack or are the changes just naturally occurring?

Go big or go home. Farmers in the past were able to raise a family on a 160 acre farm. Now anybody not farming thousands of acres is earning their primary living someplace else.

Regulation. Zoning EPA its never ending the stuff people in rural America now have to contend with.

Hunting fishing trapping. Not only is there no longer a fur market but hunting for food ahead of hunting for entertainment is about gone. Neighbors can not trespass on each other as urbanites have paid for exclusive trespass permission.

Kids from rural areas usually move to cities for the employment opportunity, and kids from cities move rural as soon as they can afford it. Makes farm ground more profitable as a development than as a farm.

So, deliberate manipulation or just change because of population growth or is it something else?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679289
09/26/22 08:58 AM
09/26/22 08:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,942
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline
trapper
kytrapper  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,942
SE Kentucky
I don’t know Danny but you hit on several of my same complaints.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679307
09/26/22 09:21 AM
09/26/22 09:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 360
monadnock region New Hampshire
nh toe pincher Offline
trapper
nh toe pincher  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 360
monadnock region New Hampshire
sad but true. everywhere. a few generations ago the farms near where i grew up were nearly self sufficient with trips to town being rare. bartering with neighbors & local co-ops for needs.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679309
09/26/22 09:25 AM
09/26/22 09:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Is it under deliberate attack or are the changes just naturally occurring?

Go big or go home. Farmers in the past were able to raise a family on a 160 acre farm. Now anybody not farming thousands of acres is earning their primary living someplace else.

Regulation. Zoning EPA its never ending the stuff people in rural America now have to contend with.

Hunting fishing trapping. Not only is there no longer a fur market but hunting for food ahead of hunting for entertainment is about gone. Neighbors can not trespass on each other as urbanites have paid for exclusive trespass permission.

Kids from rural areas usually move to cities for the employment opportunity, and kids from cities move rural as soon as they can afford it. Makes farm ground more profitable as a development than as a farm.

So, deliberate manipulation or just change because of population growth or is it something else?


Go big or go home? To make money in farming there is other ways than going big. But they require more work, doing your own direct to consumer sales and eliminating costs. Lots of people make a living off small (less than 40 acre) farms, Remember its not the yeild/acre, its the profit/acre that counts. Diversify and grow unique high value crops instead of corn and soy.

Reg, zoning EPA? Changes from township to township, local government effects alot.

Hunting/fishing/trapping? Hunting for food? hunters have changed that long ago, look at trapperman to see all the posts about antlers, can't eat antlers but hunters are obsessed with them. Trespassing should be eliminated. If you want to hunt on someone else's land get permission. If your neighbor leases his land and makes a few bucks on it good for him, You just complained about lack of income from farming, here is another income source for farmers from their land. Maybe they will see the land for more than just acres to plow when they realize they can make money on hedge rows and unplowed land too. I see that as a win for all.

City to rural? Lack of jobs and cost of land makes it hard to stay, living in a city with crime and poor quality of life is hard to swallow for some, who can blame them. The reg and zoning you complain about can effect development if the town wants to.

No deliberate manipulation, changes in attitude and priorities.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679313
09/26/22 09:29 AM
09/26/22 09:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,133
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline OP
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,133
williamsburg ks
I know quite a few people with other commodities than corn beans and milo. Apple orchard, elk farm, truck farmers. ALL of them also work for wages somewhere else.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679316
09/26/22 09:36 AM
09/26/22 09:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,584
Wi.
D
Diggerman Offline
trapper
Diggerman  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,584
Wi.
Its laziness, My grampa paid for a farm with 12 cows and a team of horses. This generation of farmers or offspring of farmers should I say are cashing in on high rents and letting their barns fall down, Most came by their land through inheritance. Getting big has its benefits but so did staying small, just wasnt glamorous enough for most.
Dont blame the big guys, They are just hard working opportunist. Contrary to belief, They did not force out the small guy.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679320
09/26/22 09:38 AM
09/26/22 09:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
the issue with making a buck off farming is big ag has made food cheap, too cheap. Consumers are hard pressed to pay more than what you can get something at walmart for.
Small farmers have to learn to eliminate the middlemen and sell direct, grow products that taste better and are better for you and sell themselves and their superior products. Like I said more work, farming as most occupations can be very profitable but you have to work at it. Are you willing to pay 3-4x for a fresh garden tomato vs the pale hard flavorless ones you get at the store?

Last edited by Dirty D; 09/26/22 09:46 AM.
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679326
09/26/22 09:46 AM
09/26/22 09:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,369
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21,369
St. Louis Co, Mo
Not to mention millions of dollars tied up in equipment!


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679329
09/26/22 09:48 AM
09/26/22 09:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
With inflation on food prices now is a golden opportunity for those willing to do some work.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679331
09/26/22 09:49 AM
09/26/22 09:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,117
MD
D
DaveP Offline
trapper
DaveP  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,117
MD
Originally Posted by Diggerman
Its laziness, My grampa paid for a farm with 12 cows and a team of horses. This generation of farmers or offspring of farmers should I say are cashing in on high rents and letting their barns fall down, Most came by their land through inheritance. Getting big has its benefits but so did staying small, just wasnt glamorous enough for most.
Dont blame the big guys, They are just hard working opportunist. Contrary to belief, They did not force out the small guy.



Around here, tobacco buyouts finished off the small farms.
You COULD get by with small acreage, grandpa's equipment, and a commitment to WORK.

So minimal input costs, and labor was handled by family, and the generations deep helping your neighbors get theirs cut and hung and they all helped you model.

Not enough acreage to switch to grain, plus astronomical associated equipment costs.

And just how many Xmas tree farms/ pick your own strawberries/vineyards can one area support?

So houses became the new cash crop once the payouts ended.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679332
09/26/22 09:50 AM
09/26/22 09:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,584
Wi.
D
Diggerman Offline
trapper
Diggerman  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,584
Wi.
Small farmers can still make a good living, BUT, most got caught up in the easy chemical farming and margins tightened and instead of changing to more profitable , labor intensive cropping , they either sold a farm their dad paid for or rented out the farm their dad paid for.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679341
09/26/22 10:00 AM
09/26/22 10:00 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,805
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Online content
trapper
Foxpaw  Online Content
trapper
F

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,805
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Is it under deliberate attack or are the changes just naturally occurring?

Go big or go home. Farmers in the past were able to raise a family on a 160 acre farm. Now anybody not farming thousands of acres is earning their primary living someplace else.

Regulation. Zoning EPA its never ending the stuff people in rural America now have to contend with.

Hunting fishing trapping. Not only is there no longer a fur market but hunting for food ahead of hunting for entertainment is about gone. Neighbors can not trespass on each other as urbanites have paid for exclusive trespass permission.

Kids from rural areas usually move to cities for the employment opportunity, and kids from cities move rural as soon as they can afford it. Makes farm ground more profitable as a development than as a farm.

So, deliberate manipulation or just change because of population growth or is it something else?


Had the same thought a few days ago, Danny.
At one time a man wanted his neighbors wife, but now he wants his neighbors land. And if the wife goes with it, ok, if not then there is always plenty more!

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679342
09/26/22 10:00 AM
09/26/22 10:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,638
Oregon 66
bfflobo Offline
trapper
bfflobo  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,638
Oregon 66
Big acre farms are mostly growing grains of some kind. Therefore surviving on or at least, counting on, government subsidies.
Small rural farms being broken up into smaller partials , which evolves into more local government regulations and taxations and fewer personal freedoms known by last generation country folks.
These two comments have one thing in common. "Government".
Whenever government gets involved in anything other than military and protecting borders, things get screwed up. Now they have failed badly at one of those and is working on the other.
Evolution of countries and their governments gets ugly in the down cycles.


Clean traps,tight lines,straight shooting
http://i.imgur.com/3sawxE9m.jpg
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679362
09/26/22 10:32 AM
09/26/22 10:32 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 62
ND
K
Kyle Krebs Offline
trapper
Kyle Krebs  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 62
ND
I just feel like starting some 'fecal matter' today! Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone on here but I feel I'm in a position to comment since I make my living farming and ranching and we do direct marketing and some agritourism as well. My wife also works full time as a teacher. First and foremost it comes down to what you want to do and have time and ability to do. Young people leave the farm for 2 main reasons. 1 hate it. Can't stand lifestyle. Want paid vacation 40 -50 hour work week weekends off to go fishing ECT. 2. The old generation won't step aside and give them a chance so they go to work and now there 50 to 60 years old and don't want it at that age.
Now you come to making money. There is lots of money floating around in agriculture but not everyone can capitalize on it, simply because they don't know how. Times have changed. I'm not any kinda expert but old school farming like you guys are talking about is gone. If you don't treat it like a business you won't last long period. It's great to say it's all bout hard work blah blah. It's not! I watch my dad work his (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) off milking cows and he has made a living but never been able to make any real money cause he just can't see it.
I also want to point out there is not a thing wrong with farming and having a job. So.e of the best operation I know are part time, and they make money too. Think of it like a big old savings account on the side.
Here were I'm going to start something, since this is trapping sight let's take everything that has been said and apply it to trapping.
Why dont you guys just do some direct marketing. Or find that niche market and capitalize on it. Why do most trappers have full time jobs? Must be the big trappers ran them out? I can do this with every comment on here! Truth is trapping and the fur industry is a multi millions dollar industry. Someone is making money I promise you that.
In my humble opinion most people lack the skills to be self employed and some who could don't want to. Nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with having a career or job you like and making your living doing that. Not every business is a multimillion dollar operation. But the small time guy makes lots of sacrifices to do what he loves period.

Re: rural life today [Re: Dirty D] #7679364
09/26/22 10:38 AM
09/26/22 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,271
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Online content
trapper
Providence Farm  Online Content
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,271
Indiana
Originally Posted by Dirty D
the issue with making a buck off farming is big ag has made food cheap, too cheap. Consumers are hard pressed to pay more than what you can get something at walmart for.
Small farmers have to learn to eliminate the middlemen and sell direct, grow products that taste better and are better for you and sell themselves and their superior products. Like I said more work, farming as most occupations can be very profitable but you have to work at it. Are you willing to pay 3-4x for a fresh garden tomato vs the pale hard flavorless ones you get at the store?



Don't forget the government subsidized bigger operations and the government regulations raise cost so a small farm can't be as profitable.

Try butchering your own cows on your farm and selling them, sell some raw milk, build lodging for farm help with out jumping through government hoops$$$.

Big guys can spread the cost across a larger scale making it more cost effective or be sent to an inspected place or make one. Hire people to apply for grants and pay accountants.

Government picks the winners and looser and create barriers to enter in a lot of situations. Want a fun read? Try Everything I want to do is illegal by Joel Salatin. He is a small farmer that developed his markets and small scale farming methods and is an amazing man. This book is just some of the issues he personally had or people he knew had when Trying to do business and the then ran into the government bs.

You can make money and a good living with a small farm but it takes a ton of work and vision. You have to be able to see opportunities create and develop markets forum and oftentimes new methods.


Last edited by Providence Farm; 09/26/22 10:52 AM.
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679366
09/26/22 10:41 AM
09/26/22 10:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,461
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,461
The Hill Country of Texas
Danny I think our way of life has been under attack for many decades. I like you, remember when a man who had 100 head of commercial cows was basically a made man. Now that is a hobby farm and both the guy and his wife are working in town.


“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: rural life today [Re: Kyle Krebs] #7679368
09/26/22 10:43 AM
09/26/22 10:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
D
Dirty D Offline
trapper
Dirty D  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,992
east central WI
Originally Posted by Kyle Krebs
I just feel like starting some 'fecal matter' today! Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone on here but I feel I'm in a position to comment since I make my living farming and ranching and we do direct marketing and some agritourism as well. My wife also works full time as a teacher. First and foremost it comes down to what you want to do and have time and ability to do. Young people leave the farm for 2 main reasons. 1 hate it. Can't stand lifestyle. Want paid vacation 40 -50 hour work week weekends off to go fishing ECT. 2. The old generation won't step aside and give them a chance so they go to work and now there 50 to 60 years old and don't want it at that age.
Now you come to making money. There is lots of money floating around in agriculture but not everyone can capitalize on it, simply because they don't know how. Times have changed. I'm not any kinda expert but old school farming like you guys are talking about is gone. If you don't treat it like a business you won't last long period. It's great to say it's all bout hard work blah blah. It's not! I watch my dad work his (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) off milking cows and he has made a living but never been able to make any real money cause he just can't see it.
I also want to point out there is not a thing wrong with farming and having a job. So.e of the best operation I know are part time, and they make money too. Think of it like a big old savings account on the side.
Here were I'm going to start something, since this is trapping sight let's take everything that has been said and apply it to trapping.
Why dont you guys just do some direct marketing. Or find that niche market and capitalize on it. Why do most trappers have full time jobs? Must be the big trappers ran them out? I can do this with every comment on here! Truth is trapping and the fur industry is a multi millions dollar industry. Someone is making money I promise you that.
In my humble opinion most people lack the skills to be self employed and some who could don't want to. Nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with having a career or job you like and making your living doing that. Not every business is a multimillion dollar operation. But the small time guy makes lots of sacrifices to do what he loves period.


just working ain't gonna insure a good income, you have to work and know what your doing cost and profit wise. You have to continuously look for improvements and ways of doing things. Just busting your hump 70-80 hrs/wk ain't gonna do it.

if your not setting the prices for what your farming your doing it wrong.

Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679382
09/26/22 11:23 AM
09/26/22 11:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 105
Maine
J
Jkeith Offline
trapper
Jkeith  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 105
Maine
It's the global corporatization of our economy, which includes the totality of agribusiness. The consequences of that shift run very deep - culture, family structure, migration patterns, political, spiritual and so on. The rural way of life has been under assault for decades; in fact, you could argue since the industrial revolution.

The current shift is starting to look more comparable to a feudal system than with good-old-fashioned capitalism, but instead of lords and kings owning and ruling the lands and livelihoods, it will be corporate conglomerates. And take guess who the vassals and serfs will be? I think in many cases we're already there.

And whose interests are served by all the bloated regulation?

Last edited by Jkeith; 09/26/22 11:27 AM.
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679384
09/26/22 11:36 AM
09/26/22 11:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,535
W NY
Turtledale Offline
trapper
Turtledale  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,535
W NY
Yes Danny our rural way of life is under attack. Tax the snot out of the rural person and send all the money to the big cities to waste on everything from welfare to expensive politicians toilet paper.
The cities have all the voting power with all the rats they harbor and we have to play by their rules, that's the democratic party's way.
Most of them have never seen a forest or a deer, they live in their concrete jungle like animals and impose their will upon the country folk.
I've been losing my way of life exponentially for probably the last 20 years


NYSTA, NTA, FTA, life member Erie county trappers assn.,life member Catt.county trappers
Re: rural life today [Re: danny clifton] #7679388
09/26/22 11:39 AM
09/26/22 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,732
pa
H
hippie Offline
trapper
hippie  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,732
pa
If family farms aren't bought by one of several mega farmers here when the kids get it, it gets cut up into lots. Even the Amish quit farming for the most part and went into other more profitable businesses.

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