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Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: hippie] #7687718
10/08/22 11:36 AM
10/08/22 11:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
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Ohio Wolverine  Offline
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Posts: 5,849
ohio
Originally Posted by hippie
Does it matter if we use our oil or trade ours for what we want, as long as price is comparable on the market?




https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php

I just posted some highlights , there's a lot of information and charts in the link above.


The United States was a total petroleum net exporter in 2020 and 2021In 2021, the United States exported about 8.63 million barrels per day (b/d) and imported about 8.47 million b/d of petroleum,1 making the United States an annual total petroleum net exporter for the second year in a row since at least 1949. Total petroleum net exports were about 0.16 million b/d in 2021, and total petroleum net exports in 2020 were 0.63 million b/d. Also in 2021, the United States produced2 about 18.66 million b/d of petroleum and consumed3 about 19.78 million b/d. Even though U.S. annual total petroleum exports were greater than total petroleum imports in 2020 and 2021, the United States still imported some crude oil and petroleum products from other countries to help to supply domestic demand for petroleum and to supply international markets.The United States remained a net crude oil importer in 2021, importing about 6.11 million b/d of crude oil and exporting about 2.90 million b/d. However, some of the crude oil that the U.S. imports is refined by U.S. refineries into petroleum products—such as gasoline, heating oil, diesel fuel, and jet fuel—that the U.S. exports. Also, some of imported petroleum may be stored and subsequently exported.U.S. petroleum imports peaked in 2005After generally increasing every year from 1954 through 2005, U.S. gross and net total petroleum imports peaked in 2005. Since 2005, increases in domestic petroleum production and increases in petroleum exports have helped to reduce annual total petroleum net imports. In 2020 and 2021, annual total petroleum net imports were actually negative, the first years since since at least 1949.

Last edited by Ohio Wolverine; 10/08/22 11:38 AM.

We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7687808
10/08/22 02:12 PM
10/08/22 02:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 19,689
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hippie Offline
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wink

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688077
10/08/22 09:44 PM
10/08/22 09:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,653
Central Texas
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Chancey Offline
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Central Texas
Good stuff Ohio W.

Makes it very clear that the US can totally self sustain. Last three years we have produced and exported more than we consumed.

So why do we do the back and forth imports/exports when we can produce it all and refine it right here?

I know, its a commodity and that means it has to be sold on a global market, so they say. But, that is BS IMO. Russia or China does not play by that game. What's wrong with taking care of America first?


Resident Conspiracy Theorist
Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688089
10/08/22 09:57 PM
10/08/22 09:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23,481
New Hampshire
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Nessmuck Offline
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Nessmuck  Offline
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Posts: 23,481
New Hampshire
Make America last ......Brought to you by the Democrat Party.


It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688132
10/08/22 11:06 PM
10/08/22 11:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,897
minnesota
M
mnsota Offline
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minnesota
Putting America first assures the rest of the world a better outcome.

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: Chancey] #7688374
10/09/22 10:48 AM
10/09/22 10:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by Chancey
Good stuff Ohio W.

Makes it very clear that the US can totally self sustain. Last three years we have produced and exported more than we consumed.

So why do we do the back and forth imports/exports when we can produce it all and refine it right here?

I know, its a commodity and that means it has to be sold on a global market, so they say. But, that is BS IMO. Russia or China does not play by that game. What's wrong with taking care of America first?


Simple answer is American and Canadian oil production is more expensive. This is why oil companies like to produce oil all over the world. Many other countries present opportunities to produce oil cheaper and therefore keep prices lower for the consumer. American and Canadian produced oil has a higher break even price than many of the Opec plus countries. There was a reason Alaska was in a recession when oil prices dropped below $60 per barrel.

"In spite of longstanding geopolitical rivalries – notably the GCC bloc versus Iran and Venezuela – emerging markets oil producers within and outside OPEC maintained at least some output discipline until the fall of 2014, when Saudi Arabia advocated higher OPEC production and lower price levels to erode the profitability of high-cost shale oil production.["


Who is John Galt?
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688399
10/09/22 11:30 AM
10/09/22 11:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
R
Rat Masterson Offline
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Posts: 3,972
South Dakota
Opec's ease of oil production doesn't lower prices they just make more.

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688414
10/09/22 11:56 AM
10/09/22 11:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Armpit, ak
In 2014 the average price of gasoline U.S. was $3.43 in 2015 it was $2.51

price of gas u.s.


Who is John Galt?
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688424
10/09/22 12:17 PM
10/09/22 12:17 PM
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hippie Offline
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Wish Biden would've kept with Trumps policies on oil production.....we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: Dirt] #7688432
10/09/22 12:28 PM
10/09/22 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
W
walleye101 Online content
trapper
walleye101  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,452
MN
Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by Chancey
Good stuff Ohio W.

Makes it very clear that the US can totally self sustain. Last three years we have produced and exported more than we consumed.

So why do we do the back and forth imports/exports when we can produce it all and refine it right here?

I know, its a commodity and that means it has to be sold on a global market, so they say. But, that is BS IMO. Russia or China does not play by that game. What's wrong with taking care of America first?


Simple answer is American and Canadian oil production is more expensive. This is why oil companies like to produce oil all over the world. Many other countries present opportunities to produce oil cheaper and therefore keep prices lower for the consumer. American and Canadian produced oil has a higher break even price than many of the Opec plus countries. There was a reason Alaska was in a recession when oil prices dropped below $60 per barrel.

"In spite of longstanding geopolitical rivalries – notably the GCC bloc versus Iran and Venezuela – emerging markets oil producers within and outside OPEC maintained at least some output discipline until the fall of 2014, when Saudi Arabia advocated higher OPEC production and lower price levels to erode the profitability of high-cost shale oil production.["



I would guess that one of the reasons American and Canadian oil production is more expensive is due to more stringent environmental regulations. Kind of ironic that the Greenies prefer we get our oil from elsewhere. I'm sure Venezuela is doing a great job with environmental protection.

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: Chancey] #7688436
10/09/22 12:43 PM
10/09/22 12:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Chancey
Good stuff Ohio W.

Makes it very clear that the US can totally self sustain. Last three years we have produced and exported more than we consumed.

So why do we do the back and forth imports/exports when we can produce it all and refine it right here?

I know, its a commodity and that means it has to be sold on a global market, so they say. But, that is BS IMO. Russia or China does not play by that game. What's wrong with taking care of America first?



Part of the problem is that a lot of the crude produced in North America can't be refined in our current refineries. Most of our refineries are very old and it is not cost effective to upgrade them. It is also very difficult.....as we all know...to get the permits to build new ones. Why would a business want to spend money when the government has sworn to put you out of business ?

Consequently, the crude that can't be refined here is exported and crudes we can refine are imported.

Simultaneously, we have Brandon begging the oil companies to ship more diesel to Europe, while at the same time threatening them with export RESTRICTIONS. That's the kind of leadership we have presently


Mean As Nails
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688476
10/09/22 01:48 PM
10/09/22 01:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
When was the last refinery built in the United States?
As of January 1, 2022, there were 130 operable petroleum refineries in the United States.

The newest refinery in the United States is the Texas International Terminals 45,000 b/cd refinery in Channelview, Texas, which was operable on January 1, 2022, but actually started operating in February, 2022.

However, the newest refinery with significant downstream unit capacity is Marathon's facility in Garyville, Louisiana. That facility came online in 1977 with an initial atmospheric distillation unit capacity of 200,000 b/cd, and as of January 1, 2022, it had a capacity of 585,000 b/cd.

Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. Some recent examples of large increases include:

In 2012, Motiva upgraded its refinery in Port Arthur, Texas, making it the largest U.S. refinery, with a capacity of 626,000 b/cd as of January 1, 2022.
In 2015, Valero expanded its Corpus Christi, Texas refinery after previous expansions, bringing its capacity as of January 1, 2022, to 290,000 b/cd.


Who is John Galt?
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688480
10/09/22 02:01 PM
10/09/22 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,124
McGrath, AK
Another reason for exporting is that a significant amount of crude that is refined on the gulf coast does not meet the EPA requirements for use in the US. So that fuel is exported to Latin America


Mean As Nails
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: Dirt] #7688541
10/09/22 05:02 PM
10/09/22 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
trapper
Ohio Wolverine  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Originally Posted by Dirt
When was the last refinery built in the United States?
As of January 1, 2022, there were 130 operable petroleum refineries in the United States.

The newest refinery in the United States is the Texas International Terminals 45,000 b/cd refinery in Channelview, Texas, which was operable on January 1, 2022, but actually started operating in February, 2022.

However, the newest refinery with significant downstream unit capacity is Marathon's facility in Garyville, Louisiana. That facility came online in 1977 with an initial atmospheric distillation unit capacity of 200,000 b/cd, and as of January 1, 2022, it had a capacity of 585,000 b/cd.

Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. Some recent examples of large increases include:

In 2012, Motiva upgraded its refinery in Port Arthur, Texas, making it the largest U.S. refinery, with a capacity of 626,000 b/cd as of January 1, 2022.
In 2015, Valero expanded its Corpus Christi, Texas refinery after previous expansions, bringing its capacity as of January 1, 2022, to 290,000 b/cd.


OK Now please explain why Brandon shut down the Keystone pipe line? Remember the pipe line was going to reach Louisiana .
Reference : However, the newest refinery with significant downstream unit capacity is Marathon's facility in Garyville, . That facility came online in 1977 with an initial atmospheric distillation unit capacity of 200,000 b/cd, and as of January 1, 2022, it had a capacity of 585,000 b/cd.

While you're at it please explain why he's so dead set on closing all fosil fuels in this country.
We're a good 40 years from even being ready for it.
Also explain why Cleveland , Ohio and many large cities had electric trolly cars in use, but shut them down in the late 50's early 60's.


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688597
10/09/22 07:25 PM
10/09/22 07:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Posts: 11,135
Armpit, ak
Political Football:

"Ongoing unproductive wrangling or posturing between political factions, resulting in failure to deal with an issue or problem in a decisive or appropriate way."


Who is John Galt?
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688622
10/09/22 08:26 PM
10/09/22 08:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 257
Barbour county,WV
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Oleo Acres Offline
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Barbour county,WV
LOL The trolley systems were shut down because General Motors and the oil companies bought them . Then they shut them down , so they could sell and run buses . Plus sell the gas and diesel to run them .

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688643
10/09/22 08:49 PM
10/09/22 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,398
Kansas
K
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Kansas
Electric trolleys are expensive to maintain and don't offer the flexibility of where passengers can be delivered. This was the same dilemma that favored trucking over railroads. Oil companies had nothing to do with these transitions. Propaganda works! Oil exploration is expensive in America because the "easy oil " has been produced. Other countries still have giant oil fields to discover.

Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: Oleo Acres] #7688647
10/09/22 08:54 PM
10/09/22 08:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,849
ohio
Ohio Wolverine Offline
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Ohio Wolverine  Offline
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ohio
Originally Posted by Oleo Acres
LOL The trolley systems were shut down because General Motors and the oil companies bought them . Then they shut them down , so they could sell and run buses . Plus sell the gas and diesel to run them .



So much for your answer , as the cost of running and building seems to be their down fall , not GM.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gm-trolley-conspiracy-what-really-happened/


We have met the enemy and the enemy is us!
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688657
10/09/22 09:00 PM
10/09/22 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,262
james bay frontierOnt.
B
Boco Online content
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james bay frontierOnt.
Toronto still runs street cars.They feed the subway system.

Last edited by Boco; 10/09/22 09:01 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: OPEC gouging us again [Re: danny clifton] #7688690
10/09/22 09:32 PM
10/09/22 09:32 PM
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Posts: 29,750
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline OP
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williamsburg ks
The streetcar system I saw in Germany was amazing. There was no need to own a car. Not even for people in small rural towns where electric passenger trains ran to the cities often. 24 hours a day. I prefer to drive but anybody who has seen their system will agree with me I think. The whole thing ran on electricity produced with coal. They should have stuck with coal. Coal heated everything also.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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