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Civit musk #7711192
11/07/22 09:10 AM
11/07/22 09:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,979
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline OP
trapper
kytrapper  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,979
SE Kentucky
Do bobcats like it in a lure? Obvious smell or very slight?

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7713799
11/10/22 09:22 AM
11/10/22 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,979
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline OP
trapper
kytrapper  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,979
SE Kentucky
Ok, how about a tad in baits?

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7713941
11/10/22 12:40 PM
11/10/22 12:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,527
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,527
Oregon
By 'civet' are you referring to our native spotted skunks or the African beast?


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7713947
11/10/22 12:47 PM
11/10/22 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,979
SE Kentucky
K
kytrapper Offline OP
trapper
kytrapper  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,979
SE Kentucky
Sorry, imitation African civit.

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7714269
11/10/22 07:35 PM
11/10/22 07:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,569
catskill mnts, New York
W
watermann2 Offline
trapper
watermann2  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,569
catskill mnts, New York
I use it in a bait solution I make . I use an eye dropper full into a pint of bait solution to treat a gallon of bait . its only a trace odor.


Aka Watermann...
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7717799
11/14/22 09:41 PM
11/14/22 09:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,297
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,297
williamsburg ks
I like to melt the real stuff into sun rendered skunk oil. double boiler method.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853442
04/25/23 11:12 PM
04/25/23 11:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
papabear! Offline
trapper
papabear!  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
Mr kytrapper, Bobcats and canines are very attracted to civet musk.......I often use it as a substitute for skunk essence for early season fisher and 'cat lure..... it is a very good enhancement in glands, lure, and baits.......A couple of the lure and bait dealers here have some authentic civet musk tincture.

Last edited by papabear!; 04/25/23 11:13 PM.

My hero's have always been trappers
Re: Civit musk [Re: papabear!] #7853449
04/25/23 11:24 PM
04/25/23 11:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,709
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline
"Trapperman custodian"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,709
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Originally Posted by papabear!
Mr kytrapper, Bobcats and canines are very attracted to civet musk.......I often use it as a substitute for skunk essence for early season fisher and 'cat lure..... it is a very good enhancement in glands, lure, and baits.......A couple of the lure and bait dealers here have some authentic civet musk tincture.


I use the tincture that I make from the paste in a couple of my lures. I use olive oil as the tincturing agent.



Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853557
04/26/23 07:42 AM
04/26/23 07:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,694
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
trapper
Bob Jameson  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,694
SW Pa
I prefer authentic civet musk for our formulation work. It is becoming quite expensive to the point it may be passed over and substituted with another musk due to its cost and importation issues. It is however a good ingredient for all predators on the prowl.

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853561
04/26/23 07:48 AM
04/26/23 07:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
papabear! Offline
trapper
papabear!  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
Mr. Paul Dobbins, I'm not sure if you recall, several years ago I purchased an ounce of your civet paste from you at the NYSTA convention. As we were discussing our preferred solvents and method for tincturing the paste I believe that you told me you used mineral oil at that time. I can still remember the somewhat puzzled look on your face when I stated I use extra virgin olive oil......Anyhow I got a lot of use from that tinctured 1 ounce of paste and no doubt have caught a bunch of critters by incorporating it into some of my favorite concoctions. GOOD civet is without a doubt my favorite lure enhancer!

Last edited by papabear!; 04/26/23 07:56 AM.

My hero's have always been trappers
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853594
04/26/23 09:08 AM
04/26/23 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853604
04/26/23 09:33 AM
04/26/23 09:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
When it comes to tinturing and fixing products the perfume forums are a wealth of knowledge. They have been at it for centuries.

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853608
04/26/23 09:38 AM
04/26/23 09:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 562
Maine
beezmador Offline
trapper
beezmador  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 562
Maine
Cool video, thanks for posting Yes sir


Member of NTA, MTA and FTA - keeping up the Fight for our Right to trap
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853614
04/26/23 09:51 AM
04/26/23 09:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
papabear! Offline
trapper
papabear!  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
Mr Bob Jameson, I whole heartedly agree that authentic "True" civet musk is the way to go for a better end product. Me being a hobby dabbler I don't have the cost constraints with producing a quality product at a marketable cost.

Have you ever tried blending a small amount of civet musk paste or tincture with a quantity of good artificial/synthetic? From my testing and observations, I have formed an opinion and belief that blending even a small quantity of "true" civet to a quantity of good quality artificial civet material enhances its value in formulation by incorporating the ANAMALIC value the "true" civet material has, and that the synthetic lacks. (this also holds true for Tonquin and other musk). The key is to make sure the two forms (authentic / artificial) are compatible and will blend together. I tincture civet musk paste in extra virgin olive oil and had to figure out when the artificial being used is not oil based you will have to dissolve the civet musk paste in a solvent like diethyl phthalate first .(thanks to Russ Carmen for the diethyl phthalate tip).....I will admit that the blend is not quite equally effective as the straight "true" civet but IS quite noticeably more effective than the artificial in critter response and reaction to its odor.


My hero's have always been trappers
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7853622
04/26/23 10:10 AM
04/26/23 10:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,694
SW Pa
B
Bob Jameson Offline
trapper
Bob Jameson  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,694
SW Pa
Perfuming and tincturing is a science and can be expensive if you dabble in it very much. All batches don't always work out like expected unfortunately.

Re: Civit musk [Re: Bob Jameson] #7853625
04/26/23 10:14 AM
04/26/23 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Bob Jameson
Perfuming and tincturing is a science and expensive if you dabble in it very much. All batches don't always work out like expected unfortunately.

Had those same experiences with lure making. grin

Re: Civit musk [Re: papabear!] #7853642
04/26/23 10:45 AM
04/26/23 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,709
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Offline
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Offline
"Trapperman custodian"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 16,709
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Originally Posted by papabear!
Mr. Paul Dobbins, I'm not sure if you recall, several years ago I purchased an ounce of your civet paste from you at the NYSTA convention. As we were discussing our preferred solvents and method for tincturing the paste I believe that you told me you used mineral oil at that time. I can still remember the somewhat puzzled look on your face when I stated I use extra virgin olive oil......Anyhow I got a lot of use from that tinctured 1 ounce of paste and no doubt have caught a bunch of critters by incorporating it into some of my favorite concoctions. GOOD civet is without a doubt my favorite lure enhancer!


I started with mineral oil, but switched to olive oil. After talking with you, and Russ Carman, who sets up next to me at NY, I tried the olive oil and liked it.



Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7854325
04/27/23 11:28 AM
04/27/23 11:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
papabear! Offline
trapper
papabear!  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 179
NY
Mr. Yes Sir, Thank you for posting the video and I agree, perfumers often have some clever techniques.

However, I have questions about using the process that Mr. Reigler shows when the end product is to be used in or as an animal attractant. My first question would be the addition of "orris root powder" as an emulsifier for removal of the fat contained in the civet paste. I have little doubt that adding the orris root powder could and would perhaps add an undetermined value for an animal attractant product, but the end product / tincture could no longer be considered a TRUE civet tincture. I suspect removing the fat component from the paste material would be beneficial when the desired end product is expected to be clean, have plenty lift of odor and minimal residue when it's to be used for perfume applications but should not be extracted from a tincture that will be strictly used straight or incorporated in formulations of animal attractors.

Using Ethanol straight for a solvent would surely give the end product odor plenty of lift, but due to its volatile evaporative nature I question the overall longevity of the odor in an animal attractant application without due consideration of perhaps adding a stabilizer /binder oil to slow the rate of evaporation and adding some heft if the desired civet odor is to be used as a predominant contributing odor or the dominant odor of the lure formulation.

Please understand that I am by no means criticizing the tincturing method shown in the video but just sharing some observations that trappers might find helpful.


My hero's have always been trappers
Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7854364
04/27/23 12:29 PM
04/27/23 12:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,865
el vado, nm
T
Tom Fisher Offline
trapper
Tom Fisher  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,865
el vado, nm
I use a perfume in a lure, I have found that beaver oil sac oil to mix the perfume with the animal parts and seems to "hold" the odors. Iam now substituting a grease instead of the glycol/glycerene to freezeproof and raise the melting point for work in hot/sub zero temps. The grease will not freeze at below 0 and won't melt till well over 100, curious as to how it will change the "odor release"?

Re: Civit musk [Re: kytrapper] #7854365
04/27/23 12:32 PM
04/27/23 12:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,521
Marion Kansas
First of all orris is the medium he chose. Others could be used including sand as he pointed out. Also the alcohol will evaporate the the civit won't. I've tried oil and civit and I don't consider it a tincture it's more of what I'd call a cut and my experience with it the civit cut in oil didn't hold its odor over time as well as a true tincture. Civit is a fixative unto itself, doesn't need a binder/ stabilizer.
Just my 2 cents.

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