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Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717275
11/14/22 08:36 AM
11/14/22 08:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 26,334
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 26,334
williamsburg ks
[Linked Image]

He shot this one the other day over in MO. with my old 270. I cant tell any difference in how they taste or in how dead they are

He is ten now a few days away from being 11

Last edited by danny clifton; 11/14/22 08:37 AM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: danny clifton] #7717303
11/14/22 09:14 AM
11/14/22 09:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,939
PA
W
w side rd 151 Offline
trapper
w side rd 151  Offline
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Posts: 1,939
PA
It is always great to see a young hunter being successful .Looks like a nice der .And it also looks like he knows what he is doing Thanks for the pic.

Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717333
11/14/22 09:56 AM
11/14/22 09:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Supergoose
Seeing lots of votes on the .243 and 6.5 Creedmore

Isn’t an 06 and .270 fairly similar…:.. GCPete ??



you are getting short action caliber recommendations because you said 30-06 was to much recoil.

30-06springfield and 270winchester are the same parent case the 30-06 is a .308" projectile and 270win is .277"

it comes down to simple physics
for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

to get less felt recoil

you want less equal and opposite re-action
so to do that you need less action
meaning a lighter projectile and or don't send it as fast

or make the object at rest have more mass.

carrying around a substantially heavier gun is not much fun
deer are a fairly soft target so you don't need to send the projectile as hard as the 30-06 can especially at the ranges you say you hunt
and the other options given have a lighter projectile or less velocity or both

in guns a few things make less felt recoil
good fit , if you fit the gun or it fits you you are less likely to have it loose in your shoulder and you cheek off the wood if you are connected to the rifle it has no time to generate movement before it starts pushing you.

lighter bullets sent the same speed

the same bullet sent with less speed

some of both

and guns that use the energy of the round to eject the case I won't say semi auto but that is the most common , Browning had a trap gun that was like a single shot semi auto it ejected the hull but just stayed open and it reduced recoil
because it can push on the mass of the bolt , timed to happen as the bullet has exited the muzzle and the chamber pressures are falling in a locked breach semi auto.

and one more thing since a lot of the recoil of the gun is the gasses after the projectile pushing a pressure wave out in front of you muzzle brakes divert that extra gas to reduce the recoil , but then it sends that pressure wave of gas to the sides and back

if you watch someone laying prone shooting you see the grass lay down when they shoot but it is in a cone shape in front of them so if shooting at 12 oclock from about 10-2 you have a cone of gas coming out of the muzzle

if they are using a muzzle brake you have gasses from about 4:30 to 7:30 so the shooter isn't much effected but the guy at the bench next to you at the range sure does.

suppressors are just muffler with a hole through them so how do they reduce felt recoil , in 2 ways first it is a chamber for the gasses to expand thing of a 2 stroke motorcycle it is vey loud and poppy and you can feel the exhaust jetting out but if you put a muffler on that diverts the gasses more it it looses much of that sharp pop and you get a more steady flow of exhaust

the silencer gives the gasses a place to expand that isn't pushing on the air in front of you directing all that energy back into your shoulder

the other way it works to reduce felt recoil is that it is a weight at the very end of your gun so it limits muzzle rise and that face smacking rise is much of what we dislike as recoil

some guns reduce felt recoil by lowering the bore axis and placing it more in line with your shoulder the AR platform does this from the muzzle thru the stock it is a single line the scope is mounted higher because stock has no drop in the comb the distance from the top of the barrel to the top of the stock where your cheek rests
even some bolt action rifles are lowering the bore axis like the Sig Cross https://www.sigsauer.com/firearms/rifles-pistols/cross.html

350 legend in an AR plays on a few of these principals which is why people say it has so little felt recoil
slower bullet even with the weight of 170 and 180 gr they are only moving about 2200fps
in an AR the bolt moving takes up some of the recoil
and the final thing is they use a fast burning powder it is intended to burn up in a 16 inch barrel so there is less excess gas pushing back when the projectile leaves the muzzle

all the shorter cartridges do this to some extent with less capacity they burn more efficiently and have have less after push. but it comes at the price of some velocity also.

30-06 is almost a standard pressure magnum it was intentionally designed to get the longest MO maximum ordinate possible in 1906 in the Spanish American war the 7x57 Mauser with it's spitzer bullet was out ranging our 30-40.
the army said make me a cartridge that is 30 caliber that will go farther than the 7x57
and the 30-06 was born 1903 rifles could be rechambered in it and new rifles could be made in it from the get go

did we need a 30-06 shoulder fired rifle , not exactly but wars being often won on supply line we had a rifle that used a machine gun cartridge one ammo to feed them all
the answer to the question of is this enough power , make more power than may be needed.
more power comes as more recoil

in 1936 the M1 Garand came along and we found 2 things we needed to drop the gas port pressure a little and our 178gr bullet was too efficient it could travel farther than the length of the ranges we had on many army bases so a change to M2 ball ammo was made with a reduced velocity down to 2750fps and a flat base 150gr bullet now it had a max range that fell within the length of an army range , didn't beat up the guns as bad , or the guys , and the flat based bullet was easy to manufacture and was less efficient reducing the MO to the length of the army's rifle ranges .

why is it an issue that ranges on army bases were not long enough , because to save space they made many of the ranges face each other a big circle sort of , that is how Ft MCcoy is

after WWII the US-DOD decided that 2750fps had worked well , but soldiers needed more rounds and the powder technology was getting better so they didn't need the 63mm long case any more , the 308 Winchester was born and it sent a 150gr bullet at about the same speed and did it with a 51mm long case that was a touch less tapered because being shorter it didn't need to be as tapered to feed. the 308 is .472" shorter in the case with the same bullet the neck is also shorter to maximize powder capacity.
the bullet stayed the same the powder and case got about 15% lighter and you could carry about 10% more rounds for the same weight.


if you really wanted to just have less recoil in a 30-06 the Hornady custom Lite ammo a 125gr bullet traveling 2700 fps uses less speed and less projectile mass and a faster burning powder to give less felt recoil , it does make ammo harder to find now you have only about 2 reduced recoil loads for 30-06 onthe market

if you want to buy another rifle any way thing about the features you want it to have and you will probably want to change calibers because much of the recoil is that manufactures push 30-06 to nearly it's full potential while keeping pressures within a safe margine typically sending a 150gr bullet at 2950 fps it is 200fps more than what easily kills a deer from a 308win and in almost everything there are diminishing returns as you get to the top of any performance.

if you said I need a car that will turn out 7 second 1/4 miles you need a Lot more car and a lot more HP than if you settled for 14 second 1/4 miles you feel that HP as felt recoil.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Andrew Eastwood] #7717337
11/14/22 09:59 AM
11/14/22 09:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Andrew Eastwood
Info at hand-You will be shooting inside of 100 yards and you would like low recoil
Solution-22mag, it is the perfect choice for your parameters
Dang 3 pages and no one has given you this solid information to work with, ain't there any outlaws on this site?
^^^^^all satire^^^^^^a joke^^^^^not legal even if it is true^^^^^^grin

Danny is giving solid advice with the 22-250 if that small caliber is legal in your state. With your limited range I would even say .223 rem would be a fine choice with the proper bullets and shot placement. Either cartridge has very low recoil and more than capable of taking deer with proper shot placement. Shot placement is the key though.


in WI now everything that works is Legal 17hmr , 204 ruger , as long as you can make it work no ticket can be issued.

if you fail to make the 22-mag work then it could be considered unreasonable equipment and a citation issued. of course people fail to make 30-06 work all the time but that is poor shooting and not questionable power


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717348
11/14/22 10:11 AM
11/14/22 10:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,009
nm
A
adam m Offline
trapper
adam m  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,009
nm
Look into Thompson Center Compass. Yes it's synthetic stock but very little recoil. I have one in 270. I don't remember if mine came with a vortex scope or I bought it. I'm on very little sleep.
Weight and recoil are factors for me because of my fibromyalgia. I like it so much I want a couple more in different calibers.
If you can afford it look into Benelli rifles. I have a Nova 12 ga. Shooting 3" shells is a breeze.

You can also build or buy plenty of hunting rifles on the AR platform.

Last edited by adam m; 11/14/22 10:18 AM. Reason: Text
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7717355
11/14/22 10:19 AM
11/14/22 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,905
Fontana KS
A
Andrew Eastwood Offline
trapper
Andrew Eastwood  Offline
trapper
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,905
Fontana KS
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE

in WI now everything that works is Legal 17hmr , 204 ruger , as long as you can make it work no ticket can be issued.

if you fail to make the 22-mag work then it could be considered unreasonable equipment and a citation issued. of course people fail to make 30-06 work all the time but that is poor shooting and not questionable power

That would be great!!!
I can see it now. I come dragging a doe out the woods while packing my 22lr to see the warden writing a ticket to some slob that just shot the leg off of a deer with his new top shelf 338 lapua. laugh laugh laugh

I have killed enough hogs and beef with a 22lr to be more than sure it would take deer consistently at limited range, but also have helped try to recover and heard of many more deer that survived the high-powers from a questionable shot. Good marksmanship goes a long way, spray and pray should not be a consideration. Glad I was raised by a master instructor in the day and age he could pound into my head marksmanship. To dang many folks never learn discipline in marksmanship or discipline in general for that matter.
Sorry for getting off topic to the OP, I will shut up now.

Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717360
11/14/22 10:21 AM
11/14/22 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,771
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
"color blind Kraut"

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,771
Tennessee
If you are shooting at around 100 yards, the good old Mod 94 Winchester or the Marlin in 30-30 ... Slap a peep sight on either one and have at it. They are light to carry, easy on the shoulder and quick handling little rifles.


Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717363
11/14/22 10:26 AM
11/14/22 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 846
Pa
S
Striperfred Offline
trapper
Striperfred  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 846
Pa
So many great calibers between .243 and .280 that will more than meet your requirements. Modern machining has seemed to narrow the gap in accuracy between entry level models and much more spendy weapons. Having said that you owe it to yourself at least in my mind, to check out christenson arms, a little bit more pricey but very sweet piece.


life is good......
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717364
11/14/22 10:32 AM
11/14/22 10:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
there are lots of good answers
for me the answer with my budget at the time was

a Mossberg Patriot predator 308win
it has a picatinny rail so the scope can go out were I need it , I like them forward a ways
a Hornady cheek riser bag that stores spare ammo
GI web sling
and a AR-stoner muzzle brake

features I was looking for sub 8 pounds ready to hunt
threaded muzzle for a brake
detachable magazine I like that it holds 5 rounds in the mag
and it had to fit me and the bolt cycle well , nice big bolt handle helps with that

for a budget gun it is hard to get all those features

it came in at 8 pounds 2 ounces when done but I can live with that.
the brake and the good fit give it very mild recoil

I shoot hand loaded 180gr Speer BTSP bullets very near max load

I am still thinking about that Ruger-SFAR which is about twice the cost of the Mossberg and was not available till September of this 2022. I am saving for it but the Mossberg is my ready to go head out the door any time rifle.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Andrew Eastwood] #7717365
11/14/22 10:34 AM
11/14/22 10:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
G
GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,831
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Andrew Eastwood
Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE

in WI now everything that works is Legal 17hmr , 204 ruger , as long as you can make it work no ticket can be issued.

if you fail to make the 22-mag work then it could be considered unreasonable equipment and a citation issued. of course people fail to make 30-06 work all the time but that is poor shooting and not questionable power

That would be great!!!
I can see it now. I come dragging a doe out the woods while packing my 22lr to see the warden writing a ticket to some slob that just shot the leg off of a deer with his new top shelf 338 lapua. laugh laugh laugh

I have killed enough hogs and beef with a 22lr to be more than sure it would take deer consistently at limited range, but also have helped try to recover and heard of many more deer that survived the high-powers from a questionable shot. Good marksmanship goes a long way, spray and pray should not be a consideration. Glad I was raised by a master instructor in the day and age he could pound into my head marksmanship. To dang many folks never learn discipline in marksmanship or discipline in general for that matter.
Sorry for getting off topic to the OP, I will shut up now.

your also unlikely to get a ticket if it is at or exceeds the old rules 22 cal center fire

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 11/14/22 10:34 AM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717374
11/14/22 10:53 AM
11/14/22 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,027
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
trapper
Yes sir  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,027
Marion Kansas
Seen 2 deer shot with 22 cal bullets. Both lethal shots. One went 10 yds and recovered. One about 100 yds, recovered by coyotes. Neither had exit wounds and not a drop of blood to be found. My opinion 22 caliber should be limited to bang flop shots like head or neck but not heavy enough for the high shoulder shot. Here if there isn't blood they can be very hard to find if they go any distance. If u want to limit ur shots to those shots maybe 22 calipers could work. But I don't see any advantage they have over a 243 which is very adequate for any shot on deer out to 200 yds

Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Scuba1] #7717377
11/14/22 10:58 AM
11/14/22 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 437
NE Mississippi
G
GRP Offline
trapper
GRP  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 437
NE Mississippi
Originally Posted by Scuba1
If you are shooting at around 100 yards, the good old Mod 94 Winchester or the Marlin in 30-30 ... Slap a peep sight on either one and have at it. They are light to carry, easy on the shoulder and quick handling little rifles.

I was looking for this one before I posted. Also, if rifle hunting ever becomes meh, if you can regularly get within 100 yds, try handgun, crossbow or black powder.


For by grace are you saved by faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717428
11/14/22 12:27 PM
11/14/22 12:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 54,964
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 54,964
Minnesota
Get a Browning A- bolt Stainless Stalker off of Gun broker or Guns of America

They are an older model but built all Metal ...even the magazine and drop down Floorplate



If you're Sticking with the ole'- aught 6 get one with a Boss on the barrel...louder but Much recoil reduction. Or find and shoot lighter grain bullets which reduces recoil some- also They float flatter...

If you want a change... many good caliber choices mentioned above

I love my .243s 25-06 and my 7mm.Rem mag. 1oogr. Bullets out of the first two. 139 gr from my 7

Last edited by 330-Trapper; 11/14/22 03:03 PM. Reason: Spelling

NRA and NTA Life Member
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Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717444
11/14/22 01:07 PM
11/14/22 01:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,475
Nevada
N
nvwrangler Offline
trapper
nvwrangler  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,475
Nevada
I'll drop my 2 cents in here,

I'd look at the .308, ammo is readily available in a wide range of designs and weights, lots of short action calibers developed from this case. .243, .260, 6.5 and others may be hard to find ammo at times or in certain locations.

I like wood stocked rifles and would look for an older one in good shape at a pawn shop or armslist.

As for a scope a vortex diamond back would be a good starting spot, in the $200 price range.

Even for western game the .308 is all you would need except for maybe moose or big bears out to 300 yards or so.

Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717486
11/14/22 02:23 PM
11/14/22 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 26,334
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
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williamsburg ks
When I was a kid me and my cousins would light kitchen matches with our 22's. Not from very far and not every shot but stuff like that is how you learn to shoot. bb gun or 375 r.u.m. its still shooting. Had town dumps back then too. Could ambush and shoot rats. If you dont think a kid learns a lot about hunting and shooting by killing rats in a dump you would be wrong. Murphy is to young to hunt with another kid but he will soon be old enough to get his hunter safety. When he does I will let him hunt by his self.

Andrew Eastwood said everything needs said about firearms for deer killing


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717488
11/14/22 02:27 PM
11/14/22 02:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 134
MONTANA
M
MTHunter Offline
trapper
MTHunter  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 134
MONTANA

With loaded Ammo getting more expensive or hard to find I would buy a 223 and as much loaded ammo as you can.

Look at CZ527 with the heavy barrel. 55gr bullet at 3,200 fps.


https://www.sportsmans.com/recoil-table


Last edited by MTHunter; 11/14/22 03:57 PM.
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717494
11/14/22 02:34 PM
11/14/22 02:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 34,071
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 34,071
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by Supergoose
That’s the problem I am having now….. with the synthetic stock the gun is light and I am getting tired of getting punched with it.

Danny where I hunt in Michigan we just don’t shoot over 100 yards. Just not wide open here


I have a Howa 1500 in 243 with a Hogue overmolded stock. Absolute tack driver an no real recoil AT all ..


Mean As Nails
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717514
11/14/22 03:15 PM
11/14/22 03:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 546
AK / ND
A
aknome Offline
trapper
aknome  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 546
AK / ND
Winchester Model 70 Featherweight or Supergrade. 243 Win. Walnut stocks, blued steel. 6 lbs 12 ounces or 7 pounds 12 ounces.
New or used. Can all get the Model 70 in stainless and synthetic as well.

Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717520
11/14/22 03:24 PM
11/14/22 03:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,047
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
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T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,047
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
I won a 243 Savage in a raffle. I didn't need it so I gave it to my, at the time, 12 year old granddaughter who had just completed firearms training. She has since shot 6 deer with it. One was an 11 pointer that she has hanging on her wall. None of the deer she has shot went more than 40 yards after they were hit. She's 18 this year and loves deer hunting.


If searching old grandmas at our airports is so important, shouldn't it be this important at our borders too?
Re: Deer rifle thoughts [Re: Supergoose] #7717583
11/14/22 04:40 PM
11/14/22 04:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,017
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,017
Iowa
I like the Tikka T3 in .22-250. I use it for coyotes, but if it were legal I'd use it for deer too.

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