Hmph....

Boco shut up???? Wow

I am a member of two groups that have been at odds for centuries. The trapper and the houndsman.

Do you feel the same way, Matt, about houndsmen? Because many times down here a farmer will call up a houndsman to kill the coon in his sweetcorn, for free... when if there were no houndsmen he would have to pay a trapper to do it, right?

Many times, houndsmen have actively worked to outlaw or restrict trapping. Michigan and Alabama are two states that come to mind in that regard but you're likely not old enough to remember it. I am friends on Facebook with over 100 hound hunters, and a couple dozen in real life. None of them have made negative comments about trapping to me, and many of them have commented on my trapping posts in a positive manner. I am friends with several of the movers and shakers in the MS coon hunting community and I'm pretty certain that if trapping was under attack in this state they would stand by us, just because they know me.

But maybe I'd have been better off to come in guns ablazing trying to ban coon hunting so I could get a few more paid coon jobs?

Providence... animosity between sportsmen groups is nothing new, nor is the union/anti-union debate. I've been following union threads on this forum long before you registered here and hunters and trappers have been at odds since the beginning of time.

Like you, I HATE to see the infighting amongst sportsmen. But unlike you, I believe unions need to go.

I don't think people that live in liberal states are horrible for it, but I can't imagine how they continue to stay. I had to get out!

Here's a prime example

So raccoons and coyotes are very different and I think you know that. I actually view 3 groups of houndsmen as allies, and that are bear hounds, cougar hounds and if you wanted to coon hounds. There has always been animosity, but I think it's more a matter of logistics and not having designated areas and times for the hounds man to do their thing. I have gone to bat for some of the biggest bear hound groups publicly and privately and have spoken a great deal about the friction between them and us and to come up with ways that would help prevent any problems.

In terms of paying somebody what if one group didn't exist, I have no idea about any of that. However if trappers had built a living and had been doing predator raccoon removal and charging for it, I'm sure not going to let any thermal hunters or any other group come in and try to get some of the pie. There is a huge difference in bear hounds and thermal hunters, because one involves something that is rooted in tradition, history and legend and has plenty of fair chase(for those 3 groups only, but squirrel hounds are just as welcome) and never really takes away from a trapper. Thermal hunters are quite differently, I don't have any animosity towards them some of my best friends in real life are die hard thermal hunters, but there are plenty of posts on here and real life conversations with trappers that tell me of thermal hunters pushing them out from farms that they used to be able to trap. Not only did they lose the money, but now they lost a trapping spot because the thermal hunters didn't want the trapper there.

It's a very apples to oranges attempt to make a comparison in terms of a completely different animal and that there aren't slews of trappers that are getting pushed out by coon hounds. Houndsmen are important to conservation, just like trappers, but if you force me to pick it's going to trappers all day every day, especially on a trapping forum.

"Thermal hunting coyotes is an extremely small subset of all hunters and is not by any means common at all."

Your last sentence was spot on MattLA. It's said that America's culture is a dichotomy society, meaning more and more we are being pushed to PICK ONE between two choices.
Me, I'm a rebel and I try my daggumest to "love thy neighbor" so choosing sides isn't on that page at all.
We tend to choose what we know best and side with those who are just like us (we think).
I've come to learn in ministry especially that who people are on the outside and what they do publicly may not be at all close to who they really are - at their core.
Most people, made to CHOOSE ONE, would prefer to not always have to PICK ONE, but trappers and thermal hunters and many more can coexist quite well. If all would not CHOOSE ONE or the other.

But while America is locked in this battle of dichotomy, some of us rebels say nope, ain't playing. So we're called names, mocked, scorned, and all the things that one side does to another >>> to try and manipulate or show dominance.
Ain't none of us own it all and when you realize Who does, it gives clarity to most of America't squabbles that people think is VITAL! It's not vital and we don't have to always PICK one of two choices.
I'm anti-dichotomy most days.
Try it. It's tricky!!!!

Blessings,
Mark

Mark
When I talk this way.. Say I'm a middle child.
I get called fence sitter and looked at as questionable by many.
Gets really old and most times I just do my thing and don't comment on what others do..
Which really isn't right either to just be silent. I've said it before to many people are thinking all or nothing.

Mac

Mac,
Yep, it's known as "The Great American Dichotomy" and it has it's positives and negatives.

It's been a prolific topic of commentators such as these...
https://www.amazon.com/Great-American-Dichotomy-Technological-Cultural/dp/0970764545

MattLA,
Your opinions on certain things shows that you really have little clue about what's going on nationwide.

You have a very odd viewpoint on trapping/trappers and other user groups. Some of your comments in this thread about how your going to send a letter to Indiana DNR to limit otter take as "retaliation" for something you didn't like that Providence Farm posted is the most immature and childish thing I've ever seen an adult post on Tman.

Are you sure you are an adult and not a child? Either that or you are a silver spoon spoiled brat that has picked up their toys and went home many times in the past.

Just because it's your opinion dont make it right or even sensible.

Union vs non union has been a fight ever since there were unions.

One type of hunter competing with another has always existed.

Political disagreements are not new. Although, it's pretty hot these days.

Class and racial conflict will never go away. Society is trying to force a solution but that just makes it worse.

Tribalism is in our DNA.

The internet amplifies all of this.

Be men. Work hard, take care of your families and think for yourself.

All true Blaine.

I got to hand it to you. You're some kind of special.

If you want exclusivity, move to North Korea. Lots of it over there.

Swamp,

It's about the calibration of wildlife management opinions and contrasting it against a political corruptness is where I took offense. According to Providence, my wildlife management opinion is worse than government officials being corrupt, Americans getting killed by guns provided to the cartel, a fake targeting packet that indicated that a sitting President was colluding with Russia. You and anybody else can criticize me and question why I think the way I do with wildlife management, but to compare me or my opinions to those things is something that requires a response, especially when I use my real name on a forum. Yes, in "retaliation" I sent a pro trapping email in which I spoke of how important trapping was to me to his Legislature and DNR, if you don't understand context it was an obvious jest about his personal reduction in otter tags.

As far as a silver spoon, let me give you some help. We were dirt poor my entire life and we definitely had the shelter, food and clothing, but not much after that. I left home when I was 17 to live by myself while going to highschool because I failed a grade, working a fulltime job and trying to plan my future. My full time job I got paid 5.15 an hour to serve other people food and deal with people who had first world problems ruling their life. I didn't have enough money to even take care of myself and had to rely on other people to help get me food. I was so low that I ate an entire gallon of mayonnaise because It was what I could afford. One night in the frosty bone chilling slum apartment that I lived in that did not have heating, I had a grandeur vision of another life for myself, one in that I was rich in the things that mattered most to me and set forth a goal, plan and strategy of execution to arrive at that destination. Nothing in my life was given to me and every single thing that I have accomplished has been from hard work, dedication and persistence even in the presence of people like yourself telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about, that I wasn't good enough and that I should just stop while I was ahead. For sure I had some luck but I didn't win the lottery, I didn't just come into some big pot of money, the luck I had was being in the right place, right time and right attitude. It didn't matter what obstacles were in my way, my eyes were on the prize and through all of those things I was fortunate enough to land where I am today, so you can take your silver spoon & stir your own tea with it, cause that dog don't hunt.

Difference of opinion is always warranted and welcome, and if you go through my posts I have always welcomed criticism of my view points even from people who childishly put me on ignore instead of having a conversation about it. If we want to be real honest about some things maybe we should start with why you didn't send me a private message about this? I wont ever let somebody publicly try to drag my name through the mud and act like I can't read it and then try to accuse me of being anti-union when he is being so overly dramatic about the USA ending. The USA hasn't been the country it was intended to be since the radical republicans ruined everything and refused to acknowledge a SCOTUS view point and then have lied about everything since then. With that said, we live in the greatest country in the world along with the best privileges and despite what the white noise says, things are not doom and gloom. I'm on a trapping forum, and I am going to protect, promote and do anything and everything I can to obtain exclusive rights for trappers in the USA. I am all about making deals and allies, but unless it's hogs or high fence game preserves, I wont ever be ok with thermal hunters coming and taking away business for trappers. I'm not sorry for what I said, I stand by every single part of it 1000%.

It is pretty simple with the union thing. The guys getting the money like it. The guys paying the money, not so much. Not that complicated.

Kind of like socialism

Well, the unions supported that too.

I can't get past the, "Rise above," and screw us Indiana otter trappers.

The fat lady has sung...