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Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: MJM] #7742679
12/13/22 01:47 PM
12/13/22 01:47 PM
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Posts: 3,477
MN
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walleye101 Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by MJM
A lot has change since the 1970's and 80's. During the recent coyote boom, I would bet no one, any place, sold as many coyotes for as high a average. as the NDFTA sales did..........


.................and with a much lower selling commission, I might add.

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: walleye101] #7742688
12/13/22 01:59 PM
12/13/22 01:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,727
ND
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MJM Offline
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ND
Originally Posted by walleye101
.................and with a much lower selling commission, I might add.

The ND Fur Takers board wanted to put on a sale to put money in the trappers pocket. I would bet you can not find a fur sale that had a lower commission. Many charge the buyers also, like FHA does. NDFTA did not charge the buyers anything.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Boco] #7742689
12/13/22 02:00 PM
12/13/22 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,248
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
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wy.wolfer Offline
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Originally Posted by Boco
Canadian trappers(Ontario specifically)-yes they established their auction house to cut out the middle man,and cut out the paternal take it or leave it attitude of the HBC(later NAFA) and get better prices for their fur.in the early to mid 50's
It was everything that the trappers had hoped for and even more.
A lot of northern trappers in the states,Especially Michigan,Minnesota,NY etc got on board and shipped(to OTA),and continue to ship (to FHA)lots of good fur.
Most American trappers kept selling to the middlemen because they either didnt want to put up fur,or didnt know how.

FHA also gets a significant quantity of southern fur, Alabama, Mississippi, Lousiana. Where do you think a lot of the Central coyotes come from, and western beaver, they also used to sell a lot of "coat" coon.

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: MJM] #7742693
12/13/22 02:02 PM
12/13/22 02:02 PM
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Posts: 3,248
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
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wy.wolfer Offline
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Originally Posted by MJM
Originally Posted by walleye101
.................and with a much lower selling commission, I might add.

The ND Fur Takers board wanted to put on a sale to put money in the trappers pocket. I would bet you can not find a fur sale that had a lower commission. Many charge the buyers also, like FHA does. NDFTA did not charge the buyers anything.

Is North Dakota Fur Takers still having a sale this year?

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7742701
12/13/22 02:12 PM
12/13/22 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,217
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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" I have been employed in this business from the fur auction end since the early 1980s and as a trapper earlier yet. The first real crisis I personally witnessed in this business happened in the mid-1980s when the Ontario Trappers Association (OTA) went through a major shift in new directors being voted in at the annual trappers convention. Out of that the new board hired Price Waterhouse to develop a new management platform for the OTA fur sales service. When the dust settled, it saw Alex Shieff resign after 20 years at the helm as captain of a real success story, OTA, which he played a major role in building.

( Somewhere in this story I believe OTA auction went bankrupt?)

A multi-tiered management team was put in place with people being hired with no history in the trade. It was during this time of great unrest and turmoil that the Hudson’s Bay Company (HBC) formed Trappers International Marketing Service (TIMS) and set up a warehouse directly across the road from where Fur Harvesters Auction (FHA) remains today.

TIMS hired away many senior graders, managers and agents from OTA which made our situation even tougher. As well, at the time we were in a depressed market with prices and clearances at unhealthy levels. The end game of the subsidiary company TIMS was to put OTA out of business. As reported in the Ottawa Citizen, Feb. 11, 1986, when TIMS’s newly appointed GM, Ron Lancour (trapper ron), was asked by a reporter, “Why not set up the subsidiary in Toronto and leave North Bay the Association?” he replied, “If you’re going to be in competition, what better place is there to locate than next door?”

Goodbye TIMS and HBC

Well, that was 35 years ago and TIMS was a flash in the pan and was dead and gone in a few short years. Actually FHA bought most of their warehouse equipment as well, and I recall many of us here rolling carts and bins of equipment down the road from their warehouse to ours prior to TIMS closing down forever. Shortly after this, for the first time since HBC was incorporated in 1670, its name ceased to be associated with wholesale fur trading. While the Toronto location of the auction house remained the same, the name was changed to North American Fur Auctions (NAFA).

In the 1960s there were eight fur auctions in Canada: HBC, Dominion Fur Co., Soudack Fur Auctions, Edmonton Fur Auction Sales, Western Canadian Raw Fur Auction Sales, Canadian Fur Auction, Saskatchewan Fur Marketing Board and the OTA. Some were forced out of business but many were simply swallowed up by the HBC to become a subsidiary or affiliate forwarding agency for that corporation with all furs being auctioned in Toronto.

During the 1980s and up to 2005, Canada was home to three remaining auction houses. In 2005 the late great Ted Pappas, owner of Western Canadian Raw Fur Auction Sales, decided to hand his business over to FHA leaving only two companies standing.

During the past 35 years we have seen markets rise and fall and troubles come and go. As of last year, FHA is the last remaining fur auction company, not only in Canada, but in all of North America."

Mark Downey

(There is a new ranch mink fur auction company in the U.S. called AME)


Who is John Galt?
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7742734
12/13/22 02:54 PM
12/13/22 02:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,248
Co.-Wy. part time AK.
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wy.wolfer Offline
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Co.-Wy. part time AK.
I wish somebody somewhere would write a 20th century history (and now 21st) of the fur business in North America. Fascinating study to me. Maybe when Mark retires (hint, hint) I'd buy a dozen copies for friends.

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7742744
12/13/22 03:03 PM
12/13/22 03:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,596
MT
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Slick Pan Offline
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Posts: 1,596
MT
Who is the last man standing(company) FHA. They may not be perfect. No business is, if you know anything about business that is obvious. But I think they try to do the best they can. The majority of trappers sold to and still sell to the middle man esp. in the US. For them its the right decision if they have small amounts of fur and do not want to work on getting the final profit. I remember a large buyer that had an issue with NAFA. He called them out on their business practices not to long before the shitn hit the fan. They banned him. Best thing that ever happened for him. He is still in business and they are gone!!!

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: wy.wolfer] #7742790
12/13/22 04:18 PM
12/13/22 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,727
ND
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MJM Offline
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ND
Originally Posted by wy.wolfer
Is North Dakota Fur Takers still having a sale this year?
I am no longer on the board, so I can not say 100%. I have heard second hand talk both ways.


"Not Really, Not Really"
Mark J Monti
"MJM you're a jerk."
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7742958
12/13/22 08:24 PM
12/13/22 08:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,579
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
A good book to read is the one by Ralph Bice entitled "Fur-The trade that put Upper Canada on the Map".
A lot of great history there from way back in the early days and how OTA fur sales came about.

[Linked Image]


Last edited by Boco; 12/13/22 08:30 PM.

Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743012
12/13/22 09:06 PM
12/13/22 09:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,333
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
Is that upper pic with the string of marten you Boco?


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743115
12/13/22 10:26 PM
12/13/22 10:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 45,579
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
In my younger days,lol.


Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743262
12/14/22 03:56 AM
12/14/22 03:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 4,565
illinois
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jalstat Offline
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illinois
Yep NAFA made a bad business decision and cost them everything and also cost a lot of trappers money I was fortunate

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743322
12/14/22 08:01 AM
12/14/22 08:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
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nimzy Offline
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WI
One foot in the grave and the other on the banana peel would sum this industry up. Lingering post collapse.

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: nimzy] #7743346
12/14/22 08:32 AM
12/14/22 08:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,484
Tug Hill, NY
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Squash Offline
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Tug Hill, NY
Originally Posted by nimzy
One foot in the grave and the other on the banana peel would sum this industry up. Lingering post collapse.


Part of the great reset.

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Boco] #7743366
12/14/22 09:08 AM
12/14/22 09:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,798
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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Shakeyjake  Offline
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Posts: 1,798
Manitoba
Originally Posted by Boco
In my younger days,lol.

Were you the narrator in the old videos in the other topic about relocating beaver?….hahaha.
I’ll have to get some fur bags from Winnipeg. I’ve got an account set up over the phone but she said it’s not active until I drop stuff off. She said she’d mail me some bags & stuff but that was months ago. Wife works in the peg a couple days a week but I ain’t sending her to that area…..literally on the wrong/bad side of the tracks.

Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: wy.wolfer] #7743468
12/14/22 11:59 AM
12/14/22 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,217
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by wy.wolfer
I wish somebody somewhere would write a 20th century history (and now 21st) of the fur business in North America. Fascinating study to me. Maybe when Mark retires (hint, hint) I'd buy a dozen copies for friends.


Do you think he knows about the history of the Seattle Fur Exchange or HE Goldberg?


Who is John Galt?
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743475
12/14/22 12:06 PM
12/14/22 12:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,333
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
I have wished that someone would interview Irwin (Goldberg) before it's too late. That interview would either need to be a book or a three part magazine article.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: beaverpeeler] #7743479
12/14/22 12:15 PM
12/14/22 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,217
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
I have wished that someone would interview Irwin (Goldberg) before it's too late. That interview would either need to be a book or a three part magazine article.


[Linked Image]


Who is John Galt?
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743498
12/14/22 12:46 PM
12/14/22 12:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,333
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Dirt, that is so funny! I was just getting ready to post the same pic! Good one!


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Fur Harvesters [Re: Mainelogger] #7743511
12/14/22 01:01 PM
12/14/22 01:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,217
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Armpit, ak
In Alaska they have what is called the Bushmailer. It is like a newspaper filled with mostly advertisements targeted to rural Alaska. H.E. Goldberg always had a full page ad listing his prices for tanned skins. I used these prices as a basis to price my own tanned skins. I don't think I was alone?


Who is John Galt?
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