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Was there really no room at the Inn? #7751920
12/23/22 09:57 AM
12/23/22 09:57 AM

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Mark June OP
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Was There Really “No Room at the Inn”?

Would you believe that this Christmas story we know so well might not quite be the way it happened? The way the Savior of the world was born.

A minor mistranslation and cultural misunderstanding may have caused us to miss something wonderful about the Christmas story.

Here’s what happened: In the King James Version, the word kataluma was translated as “inn” and because of that minor translation change, the story setting is changed from it's original text.
Luke 2, verse 7 has the word kataluma to describe where Joseph and Mary ended up staying. But this word usually means “spare room” such as the one we read about in Luke 22:11–12, when Jesus asked the disciples to reserve a kataluma, a “guest room” for the Last Supper.
In the story of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:34), we find the usual Greek word for a "commercial inn," which is pandokheion.

This means a better rendering of Luke 2:7 would be “There was no space (topos) left for them in the spare room (kataluma).

Remember, Joseph and Mary were traveling to Bethlehem for the census, and he would likely have had many relatives in the city. In their culture, it would be shameful not to host visiting family members. The only problem was that during the census, there was no space left for them in the spare room. Other relatives had already filled the spare room.

So, what about the manger? In the King James era, mangers belonged outside in a barn where the animals are kept. But most first-century houses in Israel had two stories, an upper floor for sleeping and a lower floor for cooking and keeping animals, including their mangers.

This means the picture Luke paints for us is not of inns and barns but of family, food, and adaptation. When the weary Mary and Joseph arrived at his relative’s house, the spare room was already filled, so they put baby Jesus right in the middle of the chaos.

Isn’t that a wonderful picture? For many of us, Christmas brings back memories of traveling across country, with kids running around, sloppy pets, amazing food, raucous laughter, and awkward sleeping arrangements—just like the first Christmas.

So this year, whether your Christmas is calm or chaotic, I hope it includes Jesus right there in the center of everything.

Blessings!
Mark

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7751956
12/23/22 10:41 AM
12/23/22 10:41 AM
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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This makes the story worse, the family couldn't kick cousin eddy out of the spare room to let Mary have the baby inside? Makes it kind of seem like they weren't to sure about the family or atleast Mary.

Maybe that's just the pessimist in me.

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7751967
12/23/22 10:51 AM
12/23/22 10:51 AM
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williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Online content
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If your whole family is at grammas house you definitely would think the pregnant cousin would get the bed


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7751973
12/23/22 10:54 AM
12/23/22 10:54 AM

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They would have been inside but since Joseph and Mary were from Nazareth, an area not known for much of anything (know of any of these types of areas today?)

Even those who would become disciples knew "of" Nazareth.
John 1:46
Nathanael said to him, “Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.”

... so perhaps the family who lived closer and got there first, got first dibs on rooms. Mary and Joesph had to travel 90 miles back to the city of the heritage, the city of David, for the Roman decreed census (gotta get those taxes!), so they no doubt came late to the gathering in Bethlehem.


Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7751974
12/23/22 10:54 AM
12/23/22 10:54 AM
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The Bible tell you if you don't help you relatives your worse then a infidel.

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7751980
12/23/22 11:01 AM
12/23/22 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
This makes the story worse, the family couldn't kick cousin eddy out of the spare room to let Mary have the baby inside? Makes it kind of seem like they weren't to sure about the family or atleast Mary.

Maybe that's just the pessimist in me.



This actually makes some sense. Remember Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly when he found out she was with child until the angel visited him. I would guess other family members would have disowned Mary on grounds of not believing her saying she was a virgin but pregnant with the Christ child. So maybe extended family shut her out or if they let her in maybe said "stay with the animals downstrairs". Another possibility is when looking for a room, labor came on and a barn stable was the closest most convenient place to have the baby.

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7751982
12/23/22 11:04 AM
12/23/22 11:04 AM
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Adirondacks, NY
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I choose to believe the manger version, not perhaps another version.

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7751991
12/23/22 11:18 AM
12/23/22 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark June
Was There Really “No Room at the Inn”?

Would you believe that this Christmas story we know so well might not quite be the way it happened? The way the Savior of the world was born.

A minor mistranslation and cultural misunderstanding may have caused us to miss something wonderful about the Christmas story.

Here’s what happened: In the King James Version, the word kataluma was translated as “inn” and because of that minor translation change, the story setting is changed from it's original text.
Luke 2, verse 7 has the word kataluma to describe where Joseph and Mary ended up staying. But this word usually means “spare room” such as the one we read about in Luke 22:11–12, when Jesus asked the disciples to reserve a kataluma, a “guest room” for the Last Supper.
In the story of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:34), we find the usual Greek word for a "commercial inn," which is pandokheion.

This means a better rendering of Luke 2:7 would be “There was no space (topos) left for them in the spare room (kataluma).

Remember, Joseph and Mary were traveling to Bethlehem for the census, and he would likely have had many relatives in the city. In their culture, it would be shameful not to host visiting family members. The only problem was that during the census, there was no space left for them in the spare room. Other relatives had already filled the spare room.

So, what about the manger? In the King James era, mangers belonged outside in a barn where the animals are kept. But most first-century houses in Israel had two stories, an upper floor for sleeping and a lower floor for cooking and keeping animals, including their mangers.

This means the picture Luke paints for us is not of inns and barns but of family, food, and adaptation. When the weary Mary and Joseph arrived at his relative’s house, the spare room was already filled, so they put baby Jesus right in the middle of the chaos.

Isn’t that a wonderful picture? For many of us, Christmas brings back memories of traveling across country, with kids running around, sloppy pets, amazing food, raucous laughter, and awkward sleeping arrangements—just like the first Christmas.

So this year, whether your Christmas is calm or chaotic, I hope it includes Jesus right there in the center of everything.

Blessings!
Mark

I always enjoy new observations and ideas of biblical stories, this makes me think of the wise men in the nativity scenes. Obviously the wise men would have been some time arriving after the birth of Jesus. But it makes fore a great nativity scene. Thanks for posting this Mark.

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752000
12/23/22 11:27 AM
12/23/22 11:27 AM

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Mark June OP
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Sure Giant Sage. It's a fairly well known evangelical "Reformed" translation and there's no mention of the an "inn" at all by the Early Church Fathers. The King James Version (1600's) is the first time a barn manger outside a home, plus a commercial inn enter the biblical narrative.

It's not church doctrine. wink
It's just the way the first 1600 years of our faith spoke & knew of that blessed evening and morning based on the Kione Greek words recorded and written down by the physician Luke. Luke is known as the Gospel writer with the most exacting language, which one might expect from a physician.


Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752001
12/23/22 11:29 AM
12/23/22 11:29 AM
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It all depends on the affluence of those in ancient times whether they lived in the 2 story house like Mark described, or in much more humble accommodations, such as caves.

There are many archeologists, and ancient theologians that believe that Jesus was more than likely born in a humble families "manger". Which was probably in a cave.


Millions of trees die every year to print environmentalist publications
Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752009
12/23/22 11:39 AM
12/23/22 11:39 AM

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Mark June OP
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It's typically very useful to let the Bible tell the story and in this case;

When you compare the word Luke used in Luke 2:7 (kataluma) it's the same word Luke wrote again (in the original text) in Luke 22:11 (kataluma).
The KJV says one means a commercial inn while the other means a guest room?? Jesus didn't have the Last Supper in a cave or a barn, he had it in an upper guest room (kataluma).

The Good Samaritan story in Luke 10:34 uses the word "inn" in most translations, including the KJV, but that word is pandokheion.
So, perhaps Luke would have written pandokheion in Luke 2:7 to describe where Joseph and Mary gave birth, but he didn't.
So, we allow the Bible itself to help us translate and understand the fun facts of it all!
Praise God!

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752042
12/23/22 12:18 PM
12/23/22 12:18 PM
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Nebraska
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My research shows it was indeed in a manger. It was the shepherds that gathered around Jesus, not family.

The infant Jesus was laid in a manger and was seen there by shepherds, to whom the angelic announcement of his birth was made. (Luke 2:7, 12, 16) The Greek word for “manger” in this case is Phan'te, meaning “feeding place Phan'te may also possibly apply to the stall in which animals are kept.

Last edited by silkyplainscoyot; 12/23/22 12:21 PM.
Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752047
12/23/22 12:26 PM
12/23/22 12:26 PM
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So Mary and Joseph were the country cousins from podunkville.

Makes me love the Lord all the more. Not only did the Word become flesh.

My Savior was a REDNECK like me, LOL.


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Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #7752056
12/23/22 12:40 PM
12/23/22 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
My research shows it was indeed in a manger. It was the shepherds that gathered around Jesus, not family.

The infant Jesus was laid in a manger and was seen there by shepherds, to whom the angelic announcement of his birth was made. (Luke 2:7, 12, 16) The Greek word for “manger” in this case is Phan'te, meaning “feeding place Phan'te may also possibly apply to the stall in which animals are kept.


The writing of a manger, or phante in the original language isn't in play, but rather where the phante was located. Most likely, it was downstairs where the cooking was done and the animals were kept in 1st century Bethlehem. Whether family did or didn't peek in on the new babe, the Bible doesn't say. All the family, knowing the Levitical Law would have no doubt heard of the scandalous couple... their kin.... and we know the Law demanded a shunning of those who didn't adhere to the Laws of Moses. Mary and Joseph were no doubt chastised and shunned - ignored is what we'd call it, but it would've been much harsher - by all their family. So the shepherds, the lowliest sect of society at that time, were enlightened by the angel of God and beckoned to "come and see this day..."

How marvelous is the story and how this birth forever changed the world for all time.
Amen!

Blessings!
Mark

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752065
12/23/22 12:49 PM
12/23/22 12:49 PM
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If we combined everything we "think" we know, and sold it for what we actually know, it would resemble today's fur market. laugh

I say that lightheartedly, because I'm seeking too.


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Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752099
12/23/22 01:18 PM
12/23/22 01:18 PM
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Odd or God. Our group of men at church had a devotional today about the same topic today. Thanks, Mark.


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Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752147
12/23/22 01:57 PM
12/23/22 01:57 PM

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Merry Christmas Kevin!

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752154
12/23/22 01:59 PM
12/23/22 01:59 PM
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I find it quite amusing that many liberals try to paint the Holy family as homeless because of the circumstances of Jesus' birth.

But Joseph was a tradesman, and likely fairly well-off (for the times). [PLUS, they had the gold that the Magi brought as a gift]

Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752178
12/23/22 02:15 PM
12/23/22 02:15 PM

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The gold came later (two weeks, two months, two years?) and since the magi (2, 3, 5, 7?) came from quite a distance, it took a while. Plus, there are 4 Herods as king in the Bible, so that has to be factored in.

But these magi knew Numbers 24:17 (circa 1446-1406 BC) and Isaiah's prophecy chapter 60 (700 years before Jesus), and Zechariah (500 years before the Messiah is born) 9:9 for sure, or how would they know about any King of the Jews?

And what about the frankincense and myrrh as gifts? Myrrh was used by the Egyptians during embalming. Both of these powders would have had a value exceeding gold in Jesus' time.

It's important to understand that the Gentiles want what the Jews miss in this narrative.

All rich and wonderful portions of God's greatest story for us ever.


Re: Was there really no room at the Inn? [Re: ] #7752188
12/23/22 02:31 PM
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I like Mark's explanation and I agree it is difficult to let go of what we have been taught our whole lives. Either way as a Gentile I feel blessed that the GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD took place and at the end granted me salvation. In the present times I feel especially blessed as it seems that evil is multiplying at an astounding rate and being raised in faith I have a shield against it and live with the knowledge that no matter what it will be defeated. Merry Christmas everyone to you and yours.


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