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Please school me on CARRIERS... #7752631
12/23/22 09:43 PM
12/23/22 09:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 258
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DavidInMT Offline OP
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DavidInMT  Offline OP
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On the topic of marten, bobcat, and canine lures in subzero temps - I'm assuming a "carrier" is something that will evaporate with the underlying odors and "carry" the scent away. I'm trying to think of primary items that will do this in freezing temps, and alcohol (of course) comes to mind and skunk (of course)... but I can't think of what else might typically be used. My dogs hate the scent of alcohol, and turn their nose away from it, so I'm wondering how effective alcohol might be at this. Can anyone point me in a good direction for reading more about this topic or offer any insight at understanding this topic more? Thank you!


David
Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7752720
12/23/22 11:03 PM
12/23/22 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,127
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Online content
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Online Content
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I'm no expert but here's my 2 cents. Alcohol worries because with that fast exploration rate it probably doesn't have the ability to last over time. I have learned a few things by reading on perfume chat rooms and their youtube videos. Those people understand odor in some amazing ways. Other than that it has just been a lot of experimenting with ingredients. I tend to approach it as trying to find ingredients that provide push but we are probably talking the same thing. I've come across ingredients that just seem to really have an odor profile that have an amazing ability to endure over time. One is oak moss. That stuff has a truly amazing ability to last even in very very tiny amounts. Like I can open the bottle and smell it for weeks or months in a room. I once spilled less than a half of a teaspoon of phenyl acetic acid crystal on my work bench and could smell it there for probably a year. Some of the synthetics will add push to formulations too. I've stumbled on some other things that really provide great push and add attraction to formulations. Some need to be used in just the right amounts or they can actually start having a negative reaction to the attraction of a formulation. For colder weather I've had better luck with ingredients that have a "sharper" push to them. One I use in a formulation that I like for colder weather is good shrimp essence. As stated above its just been a lot of trial and error. Finding something that works with the other ingredients you use that the target animals like and boosts the volume of the odor and also provides endurance to a formulation especially in cold or harsh conditions. For me the fun is finding that new (or at least new to me) ingredient that that takes a formulation to the next level and if gives it more odor volume and endurance and if adds attraction then it's really cool. Endurance to me is even more important in cold weather than how "loud" it is. Usually I don't know how much push or boost an ingredient will provide until I actually formulate it in a lure then smell/test the formulation with and the one without side by side.
Just some thoughts from a wannabe lure maker

Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7753022
12/24/22 10:54 AM
12/24/22 10:54 AM
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Bob Jameson Offline
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There are several materials that can produce the linger and carrying effect in perfumes as well as lures and baits. That is something that does take some time and experimentation as to which elements will fit your application the best.

That is one of the challenges of learning the fundamentals of what each ingredient can provide for you. There are several choices and combinations as to what best suits your application and in what volume to get the desired effect. Both organic and synthetic materials provide you with choices in the carrying odor capacity and the volume of sustained odor.

Vapor weights vary considerably. The ingredient(s) that you choose will determine how far they have the potenial to carry and piggy back other odor molecules.

It takes more time then many understand to work out the details then test your formula to see if it performs to expectations.

In the grand scheme of things getting too carried away with some aspects of this can be splitting hairs at times.

Just keep in mind that learnng an animals behavior, location selection and mastering a few good basic sets will win the day.

Get in front of that animal and give them a curious odor opportunity and it is usually game over if you have done your part.

Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7753058
12/24/22 11:27 AM
12/24/22 11:27 AM
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Posts: 4,949
Aliceville, Kansas 43
Yukon John Offline
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Yukon John  Offline
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I wonder if tincturing (sp) in alcohol would negate the negative response (of straight alcohol) while adding to your vapor effect?


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Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: Yukon John] #7753064
12/24/22 11:33 AM
12/24/22 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Online content
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2017
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Originally Posted by Yukon John
I wonder if tincturing (sp) in alcohol would negate the negative response (of straight alcohol) while adding to your vapor effect?

My limited experience is the vapor effect of alcohol is too short term. I'll tincture some products in everclear but then cut it with a product that is good at holding the odor

Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7753093
12/24/22 12:10 PM
12/24/22 12:10 PM
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Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
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In one of Slim P writings he said a lot of people tend to think skunk is the best carrier in cold temps, but said a mint smell will carry better in cold temps.

Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: Bob Jameson] #7753127
12/24/22 12:43 PM
12/24/22 12:43 PM
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DT63 Offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Jameson


Just keep in mind that learnng an animals behavior, location selection and mastering a few good basic sets will win the day.

Get in front of that animal and give them a curious odor opportunity and it is usually game over if you have done your part.


Best advice there is. I will leave lure making to the experts and purchase them as I dont have the time or inclination to try to reproduce what they already have. I'll stick to making simple baits that coyotes know the smell of (deer, rodents, rabbits, fish, etc.) I think we way over-estimate some of this. Coyotes have NO problem finding dead rabbits and rodents, and last time I checked they don't come packaged in a bunch of fancy perfumes. I catch MOST of my coyotes in flat sets with nothing but urine (I work around a lot of cattle) and if you set ON LOCATION, visual attraction can be all you need. Add a GOOD urine and you will catch almost every coyote that comes by if you are set on proper location. A good gland lure or curiosity lure can help no doubt. Bait just needs to be something they will want to eat. PERIOD. Location, visual attraction, high quality urine are tops in my book - followed by gland lure and bait.

Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: Yes sir] #7753351
12/24/22 04:28 PM
12/24/22 04:28 PM
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Aliceville, Kansas 43
Yukon John Offline
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Yukon John  Offline
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Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by Yukon John
I wonder if tincturing (sp) in alcohol would negate the negative response (of straight alcohol) while adding to your vapor effect?

My limited experience is the vapor effect of alcohol is too short term. I'll tincture some products in everclear but then cut it with a product that is good at holding the odor

I can see that, was just referring to the negative response to straight alcohol.


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Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7753630
12/24/22 09:19 PM
12/24/22 09:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,127
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Online content
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Online Content
"Callie's little brother"
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,127
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Gotcha now. My theory is the alcohol is volatile enough that the offensive odor disappears pretty fast and then ur left with the odor of the mother material.

Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7753759
12/24/22 11:38 PM
12/24/22 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 4,949
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Yukon John Offline
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No worries, I enjoy your commitment to your lure experiments...just wish you'd share ALL your secrets lol! Keep it up! FWIW I've always thought about mixing a little beaver castor with some fine peppermint schnapps, and just let er eat! Merry Christmas!


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Re: Please school me on CARRIERS... [Re: DavidInMT] #7754666
12/25/22 11:48 PM
12/25/22 11:48 PM
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DavidInMT Offline OP
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Thank you all for taking the time to add some insight to this, as I work it thru my head. I like to mix a couple small homebatch baits/lures each season just to see how they'll do, and I totally see the time you talk about with this experimentation, Mr. Jameson. Knowing that location is key, I'm just trying to replicate basic scents that will stick around long enough and disperse scent without freezing. Thank you, YesSir, for mentioning oak moss scent - I haven't tested that scent yet. Thank you silkyplainscoyot for reminding me about mint - my one dog loves that scent and it really seems to carry. Good point, Yukon John, on tinkering and how the alcohol will just carry the scent vs. being overpowering. This all gives me some more to think about - Thank you all, and Merry Christmas!


David
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