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Trying to ban lead ammo #7789347
02/02/23 06:54 PM
02/02/23 06:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,038
Fredonia, PA.
Finster Offline OP
trapper
Finster  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 17,038
Fredonia, PA.
Mark my words. This is where it's headed. I guess if you're dumb enough to believe man made climate change, you'll pretty much believe everything, no matter how stupid.

Bald eagles are getting fatal lead poisoning from the most all-American source imaginable

Bald eagles are turning up dead from lead poisoning all across Michigan for a surprising reason. It doesn't take much lead to sicken or kill a bald eagle, and wildlife rehabilitators say the birds are being poisoned by accidentally ingesting bullets while scavenging carcasses from animals killed by hunters using lead ammunition, reported MLive.

“If you’ve ever seen an eagle that has been poisoned, it’s something you’ll never forget,” said John Buchweitz, nutrition and toxicology section chief at Michigan State University Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory. “The animal may go blind. They can develop tremors. They can lose their ability to fly. It’s a sad statement on the truly adverse effects of a chemical, like lead, on an animal.”

America's national symbol were removed from the endangered species list after a then-controversial federal ban on the pesticide DDT nearly killed off the species, which had dwindled to just 417 nesting pairs in 1963 to more than 300,000 bald eagles currently living in the wild, and conservationists are now sounding the alarm on hunting or fishing with lead-based products.

Related video: Bald eagles flock to Logan Landfill (KPAX Missoula, MT)

“We’re going to have to use every available resource to get this out,” said James Manley, executive director of Skegemog Raptor Center. “There’s a lot of steps I think we’re going to have to go through to get enough people on our side where it’s like, okay, let’s quit putting a known toxin into the environment.”

A study published last year found nearly half of bald and golden eagles nationwide tested positive for chronic lead poisoning, and it's the third leading cause of death for the species in Michigan, and research shows the main source is lead ammunition from wild game carcasses and the entrails hunters leave behind from cleaning game in the field.

“Alternatives that are safer for people and wildlife do exist, and it makes sense to elevate the conversation and boost public awareness,” reads the state Department of National Resources webpage.

Source


I BELIEVE IN MY GOD, MY COUNTRY AND IN MYSELF.
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789355
02/02/23 06:59 PM
02/02/23 06:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
Indiana
H
HoosierTrapper07 Offline
trapper
HoosierTrapper07  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 69
Indiana
I read this early today. Made me sad. Not for the eagles. Just another angle to attack outdoorsman and gun owners.

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789365
02/02/23 07:14 PM
02/02/23 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
Already illegal on federal lands.
BUT you won't hear how many eagles die every year from a windmill !!!!! But its more than lead poisioning. Like covid. Find an eagle with it's head chopped off under a wind mill . Test it and if it has lead in it's system . "yep another lead poisioning"

What is number 1 and 2 cause of death in Michigan ?

Last edited by jbyrd63; 02/02/23 07:19 PM.
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789367
02/02/23 07:17 PM
02/02/23 07:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
Plenty of spent lead ammo around here. As much as anywhere. Ten bald eagles here. A couple were in the air. That big mud puddle had fish in it. They get in there almost every spring. Water gets low and the eagles show up. Otter too. Its within yards of the Marais Des Cygne river. Probably are a few getting lead poisoning eating deer coyotes or whatever that dont get retrieved. I imagine its very few. Took this picture a couple weeks ago about 3 miles south of Pomona KS. Town not the reservoir

[Linked Image]


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789372
02/02/23 07:22 PM
02/02/23 07:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,523
WI>>>MN >>>WI
T-Rex Offline
trapper
T-Rex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,523
WI>>>MN >>>WI
Originally Posted by Finster
Mark
“Alternatives that are safer for people and wildlife do exist, and it makes sense to elevate the conversation and boost public awareness,” reads the state Department of National Resources webpage.
Source
Some study...

We can probably agree that lead ain't like pepermint. But, absolutely no quantifying evidence or mention of what the "Alternatives" might be. Simply a piece to get all the morons to go on the warpath against lead.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789373
02/02/23 07:24 PM
02/02/23 07:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,523
WI>>>MN >>>WI
T-Rex Offline
trapper
T-Rex  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,523
WI>>>MN >>>WI
Originally Posted by Finster
Mark
“Alternatives that are safer for people and wildlife do exist, and it makes sense to elevate the conversation and boost public awareness,” reads the state Department of National Resources webpage.
Source
Some study...

We can probably agree that lead ain't like pepermint. But, absolutely no quantifying evidence or mention of what the "Alternatives" might be. Simply a piece to get all the morons to go on the warpath against lead.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789375
02/02/23 07:25 PM
02/02/23 07:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
they are thick here where I live.
I like how if you google cause of deaths for eagles. They won't say windmills . It's under the "trauma category "

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789376
02/02/23 07:26 PM
02/02/23 07:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,882
williamsburg ks
jbyrd63, its not banned yet on BLM and National Forest by the feds, some states, like CA, have banned it for hunting.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789378
02/02/23 07:27 PM
02/02/23 07:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
If the population has reached the level that they can accurately count the number that died from "lead poisoning" then I would say there's enough of the stupid things to not fret over it.

How many bazillion possums get hit by cars every year? No one cares.

I see no reason to continue the federal protection of a lot of raptors... Especially red tails.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789383
02/02/23 07:31 PM
02/02/23 07:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
According to a 2021 article by Joel Merriman, a former Bird-Smart Wind Energy Campaign Director for the American Bird Conservancy, who assessed three studies published between 2013 and 2014, the average bird fatalities per year varied from 234,000 to more than 573,000.

The article states: "Adjusting for this industry growth, we can project that approximately 538,000 wind turbine-caused bird deaths occur in the U.S. each year."

However, as Merriman adds, adjusting for size as well as the number of turbines that projection increases to 681,000.

Yea some of them are eagles but you wont see that number..... Where's the Audubon society ???

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789392
02/02/23 07:36 PM
02/02/23 07:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 484
MO
T
trap master Offline
trapper
trap master  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 484
MO
This whole lead poisoning thing is a hot steaming load of BS! This is just another attack on hunters, bad thing is there's outdoorsman organizations who have bought into it as well.men have been killing and eating game since gunpowder was invented, how many have died of lead poisoning? I've recovered a couple bullets from deer, but by far and large most deer rifles blast completely thru deer and most big game. Buddy of mines wife is a big wig for missouri department of conservation and she is pushing this lie. It came up at dinner one time and I went off, to say the rest of the evening was tense was an understatement. I've got enough lead shot and bullets to last my lifetime but that's not the point, I will never stop using lead ammo even if they do ban it and will fight tooth and nail against a ban.

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789394
02/02/23 07:42 PM
02/02/23 07:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,404
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Finster
Mark my words. This is where it's headed. I guess if you're dumb enough to believe man made climate change, you'll pretty much believe everything, no matter how stupid.

Bald eagles are getting fatal lead poisoning from the most all-American source imaginable

Bald eagles are turning up dead from lead poisoning all across Michigan for a surprising reason. It doesn't take much lead to sicken or kill a bald eagle, and wildlife rehabilitators say the birds are being poisoned by accidentally ingesting bullets while scavenging carcasses from animals killed by hunters using lead ammunition, reported MLive.

“If you’ve ever seen an eagle that has been poisoned, it’s something you’ll never forget,” said John Buchweitz, nutrition and toxicology section chief at Michigan State University Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory. “The animal may go blind. They can develop tremors. They can lose their ability to fly. It’s a sad statement on the truly adverse effects of a chemical, like lead, on an animal.”

America's national symbol were removed from the endangered species list after a then-controversial federal ban on the pesticide DDT nearly killed off the species, which had dwindled to just 417 nesting pairs in 1963 to more than 300,000 bald eagles currently living in the wild, and conservationists are now sounding the alarm on hunting or fishing with lead-based products.

Related video: Bald eagles flock to Logan Landfill (KPAX Missoula, MT)

“We’re going to have to use every available resource to get this out,” said James Manley, executive director of Skegemog Raptor Center. “There’s a lot of steps I think we’re going to have to go through to get enough people on our side where it’s like, okay, let’s quit putting a known toxin into the environment.”

A study published last year found nearly half of bald and golden eagles nationwide tested positive for chronic lead poisoning, and it's the third leading cause of death for the species in Michigan, and research shows the main source is lead ammunition from wild game carcasses and the entrails hunters leave behind from cleaning game in the field.

“Alternatives that are safer for people and wildlife do exist, and it makes sense to elevate the conversation and boost public awareness,” reads the state Department of National Resources webpage.

Source


and it's the third leading cause of death for the species in Michigan

I notice they give no actual hard numbers for the stats... "The third leading cause of death" could mean just 1 animal. If 3 were killed by collisions with cars, and 2 by windmills, then 1 by lead poisoning would make it the 3rd leading cause of death.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789412
02/02/23 08:05 PM
02/02/23 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 835
Illinois
D
DRF Offline
trapper
DRF  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 835
Illinois
[Linked Image]
There’s more nests around here than there has been in the past. Are they positive?

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Mike in A-town] #7789419
02/02/23 08:15 PM
02/02/23 08:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 381
Southern Ohio
O
Ohiowoodchuck Offline
trapper
Ohiowoodchuck  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 381
Southern Ohio
Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
If the population has reached the level that they can accurately count the number that died from "lead poisoning" then I would say there's enough of the stupid things to not fret over it.

How many bazillion possums get hit by cars every year? No one cares.

I see no reason to continue the federal protection of a lot of raptors... Especially red tails.

Mike

I’ll second that. I say open a season up on all raptors.


“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.”
— Thomas Paine
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789423
02/02/23 08:20 PM
02/02/23 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,470
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,470
MN
So, the Eagle population expanded from " just 417 nesting pairs in 1963 to more than 300,000 bald eagles currently living in the wild", during a period when lead bullets have been allowed. But, "conservationists are now sounding the alarm"?
It was nice of them to include data in the article showing just how rediculous and unnecessary this proposal is.

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789438
02/02/23 08:33 PM
02/02/23 08:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 761
Bush Alaska
victor#0 Offline
trapper
victor#0  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 761
Bush Alaska
They've been trying to sell this in Alaska too but I'm not buying it. Usually ravens are the first bird on the gut pile and grayjays are common too and yet they are not getting lead poisoning? Wolverines? Wolves? Marten? Lynx? Fox? Bears? They all enjoy gut piles but somehow only eagles are getting lead poisoning?? Kind of reminds me of the fisheries biologist tried to tell us that the salmon were dying from " climate change " because the Yukon river temp was above normal, when I asked them how many years that the Yukon water was warmer than normal they said they only sampled it over two different years and ASSUMED that the water temperature has been warm every year. When I brought up that we had two of the coldest summers on record they admitted that they were aware but didn't take samples those two years................I called their BS and they had nothing else to say. Bioligists know that if they want to get funding they have to push a certain agenda and or outcome, follow the money and question the data................

Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789441
02/02/23 08:35 PM
02/02/23 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,785
Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds Offline
trapper
Feedinggrounds  Offline
trapper

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,785
Northern lower Michigan
I live in Northern lower Michigan, I see more eagles now than ever. Every road kill has eagles and crows this time of year.


you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: walleye101] #7789449
02/02/23 08:40 PM
02/02/23 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,476
Wheaton Ks
L
lee steinmeyer Offline
trapper
lee steinmeyer  Offline
trapper
L

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,476
Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted by walleye101
So, the Eagle population expanded from " just 417 nesting pairs in 1963 to more than 300,000 bald eagles currently living in the wild", during a period when lead bullets have been allowed. But, "conservationists are now sounding the alarm"?
It was nice of them to include data in the article showing just how rediculous and unnecessary this proposal is.

Good post and a good way to show the stupidity involved in their decision making!


YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY.

http://www.lptraplinesupply.com
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Mike in A-town] #7789451
02/02/23 08:41 PM
02/02/23 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,634
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,634
Georgia
Originally Posted by Mike in A-town


How many bazillion possums get hit by cars every year? No one cares.

Mike


Quit giving them ideas.


[Linked Image]
Re: Trying to ban lead ammo [Re: Finster] #7789456
02/02/23 08:47 PM
02/02/23 08:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,462
Oregon
H
H2ORat Offline
trapper
H2ORat  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,462
Oregon
lead been banned here for waterfowl for years. not for any other species -- last year had a red tail that would wait in the tree for the shotgun blast and would beat me to the dead and dying starlings. It would let me get really close to it like 25-30 ft. I haven't seen it yet this year - was it the lead? -- or was it that it was old enough to have problems hunting for itself and I kept it alive for a while? -- Had to have something wrong with it from the start to be eating starlings - nothing touches those ugly things - killed about 200 last year.

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