Many are missing the point here both will kill a bird dead the top target is 3.5 #5 copper plated shot, the bottom is TSS shot, a good pattern reduces the loss factor gaping holes in a pattern invite problems. Everyone hunts different conditions some hunt new places and don’t know what to expect when they get there some places have little pressure and easier birds some guys hunt pressured birds. Most folks can’t see past their own front bead nothing wrong with being prepared.

So use lead or TSS use what works for you but be responsible for your shots is the point the OP asked about is his pattern it’s inadequate at best.

One of the good things about TSS in a 20 is how well it preforms. With the right load and choke it will outperform most 10s and 12 gauges with lead loads. You don't have to carry a gun that weighs 10 pounds and can shake apples out of the tress with the recoil. Its not so much about killing one father its about how much better the patterns are. One helps with the other if its needed. It turns a 410 into a honest 40 yard turkey gun. If you hiking 5 to 10 miles a day chasing gobblers in these hills, cutting a few pounds is wonderful.

Yes you can kill a turkey with lead just fine, but I have one simple question. Has anyone that has commented on this ever used tss, I mean really used it, and decided it wasn’t worth and extra $5 a shot? I mean how many shots are you going to shoot this year at gobblers? Very few will shoot over 5 shots. That’s $50 a year on really good ammo. How much gas you going to put in your truck to go turkey hunting? You really don’t need gas at all. You can walk to your hunting spot, that’s what people used to do and it worked perfectly well.

As a matter of fact, I do walk to two of my hunting spots from my house. I also CANNOT shoot TSS out of my muzzleloaders, the barrels aren't made for hard shot. I have developed lead shot loads that work for me, and I see no reason to change. When I do hunt with a modern shotgun, I have enough loads from the first time I patterned it 20 years ago to last the rest of my turkey hunting career.

Someone please post a “kill” pattern with lead at 40yds and prefer a ranged 40yds vs I walked it off or I know what 40yds is.
That should shut the TSS crowd up!

Weird how this turned into an us vs. them deal. I have always shot lead but Im definitely not opposed to trying tss. I just really dont wanna shoot turkeys at 60+. My heart beats a lot faster when theyre close enough to look them in the eye. I do like the idea of a very dead turkey at 30 or so. This is why im drawn to doing the .410 or maybe 20 gauge thing with tss. A couple lbs less slung on my shoulder all day makes a big difference.
Any issue shooting tss out of a 50’s ithaca 37 16 gauge??

I shoot both just so it shoots a good pattern is the main goal and point trying to be made here. I have no intention of shooting at a bird at 60 yards its about the calling, no calling no fun.

I won’t shoot a bird past 40 as long as I know the ranges. Open prairies and my judging goes out the window. I can pick a tree and generally be within a yard or two, lol. I prefer them between 25-35ish, any closer and I might miss!
I can see if folks are using decoys and there set out at 15-20yds not using TSS, dove loads would probably work, lol.
But for those that truly hunt turkeys then TSS is the shell to use. If I shot a 12ga or Heaven forbid a 10ga then I probably wouldn’t use TSS either. But, for those smaller gauges it’s a game changer. I don’t equate TSS to distance, I equate it to an awesome pattern of death that when it hits. I know exactly what my pattern is at multiple distances. I shoot it once every year before season and it stays consistently the same. I’ll get a pic of the sheet tomorrow.

Wanna Be is spot on. It’s not about killing them any farther it’s about the patterns you get. A tight core with good coverage all around. It’s also about using a smaller, lighter gun that you don’t give up performance on. I know that if I do my part any gobbler that comes inside 40 to 45 yards will die. He will be dead when I get there. A little flopping and he’s gone. It will flat out penetrate and bones will be broken. A 20 ga with #9 tss will out penetrate a load of #4 lead from a 12 ga.
This top picture is a sheet of aluminum heavy gauge. It was shot with a mossburg 835 3 1/2 load of # 4 LBs. It had been my go to turkey gun for a long time. Shots one of the best patterns with lead 4s I have seen.
It was shot at 42 yards. Just the range it ended up being. A few splits but no pellet passed through.
This is a picture of the same sheet, turned around. It was shot with a 20 ga with # 9 TSS
Was a few hung up in it, but most all passed through it.

I have a valmet 412 that was worked over by Mark Bansner years ago, it shoots as good as any shotgun I ever saw with lead, have taken turkeys with it out to 76 yards, however it will not compare to todays TSS patterns. Why? well TSS is heavier than lead, a #9 TSS will penetrate as well as a #6 lead, there is more #9 TSS in an oz. than there is in an oz. of #6 lead. When set up with the right choke
pellet counts of 500+ hits in a 10 in. circle at 40 yds. are almost the norm shooting a blend of #8's & #9's. shoot what ya want but set up correctly a TSS will come out on top every time. a tremendous confidence booster when you see what it can do.

Remington Youth Model 870 20ga. Sumtoy choke with a Burris FFIII on top.
This is a ranged 42.5yds. Why? It’s just the distance from where the target was to where the shooting station was, lol. Had a left to right stiff wind which really didn’t affect it.
Tell me what you see and I’ll tell you why.


If you think it’s high…it’s because it is. I’ve always put my bead or for the last several years, the red dot on the wattles. Red on red is dead!
Apex 3” #9

I see a dead bird not idea but it’s 42 yards further then I like to shoot.

At .5yds I don’t think it would be fun to carry and definitely not make for a good pic, lol. You’d probably even get some blood splatter on you when it flips.

Had a bird walk right by the wife and I while hunting in MO years ago had a BPS10 at the time it was a very close shot got to the creek washed the head off took about 10 steps and it looked like I never washed it.

I decapitated one once. It fell with no flop. Well that was until I picked it up! That joker made me look like I’d just committed a mass murder with a knife in a very confined space. I got home and the wife thought I’d been shot or something. I no longer decapitate birds and pick them up by their heads after being shot.