I taught hunter safety for 31 years here in Wisconsin. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on this program. It has been mandated in WI since 1968 if you want a hunting license. I do believe it has been a good program and many lives have been positively impacted by it.
IF.......Every young/older potential hunter had a knowledgeable parent figure (or similar) to teach them proper handling and responsible use of firearms, that would be great. However - this isn't the case whatsoever. Lots of single mothers, absentee parents, Bubba, etc., out there and these courses are a good deal for everyone involved, particularly the student.
Now, regarding an instructor talking about the history or biology of Wildlife Mgt (bison herds, etc), as referenced - my guess is that wasn't part of the state instruction, but was a "tangent" a single instructor wandered off in (??).

Danny Clifton, I wish every grampa like you and others that hang out here the very best as you love and teach your grandchildren what they should know.

Best regards, Vic

Sounds like we agree there is no reason to make this a mandatory requirement for potential hunters that have had safe firearm training from a parent or the military? I think that is a great idea. Let's make this conservative idea happen.

How do know who has had the parental "training"?

I have never had to back hand any one , they get really embarrassed when you just remind them quietly.

I also will complement them when they are going a really good job where that muzzle is like it is glued to the safe direction some one starts walking in front of them and they raise the muzzle with out missing a beat.

in 4-H we get kids at 8 years old pumping an air rifle when your 8 with good muzzle discipline can be hard but they can do it , it is a lot of how exactly to do it not negative , without yelling by telling them what you want and how you want it.
most of those kids are better about putting the safety on after every shot than I am. it is building good muscle memory early.

level that up with air pistol pumping an air pistol again can be a challenge to keep it down range but they mostly do very well with it , we also do air pistol after air rifle and have them to participate in air rifle first. Why , I have a lot more to grab onto when they swing a air rifle headed for a direction other than down range. we put and instructor right next to first year kids till they have the hang of it.

in 4-H because they are young and inexperienced if I see that muzzle coming past about 45* off target I will remind them all the targets are 90 degrees off the firing line.
if it gets near 67* I am grabbing it , telling them to stop or placing a hand on their shoulder that is the only time we touch youth at all is if they are moving into an unsafe zone the blocking the gun or stop is first choice a hand on the shoulder is a full stop don't move it is for safety of you or others.

in 13 years I have not grabbed that many guns and it was almost entirely first year air rifle kids and they didn't even know they were headed that direction and made corrections to it right away and I almost never had to do it twice. if we have a small kid as many first year are a parent or instructor pumps the rifle for them. they go action open , safety on hand it off keeping it down range.
it is always action open safety on before pumping they load the pellet after the gun is charged and directly down range again.

I also demo what the acceptable safe directions are before we get started.


(non 4-H activities)
USPSA/IPSIC/Steel challenge we have a 180 rule that is what we call it at the range your muzzle can not brake that line , I am not going to DQ you till I am sure your broke that line >90* from down strait range because it means you go home for the day , but I will warn you , you are getting close be careful.

I am also not going to stand within about 110 degrees of directly down range from you as the RO and on your dominant side , people almost always break the 180 on the non dominant side and if they do it on the dominant side you see the arm coming.
these are running and gunning activities, shooting on the move , drawing from holsters , navigating obstacles and shooting targets that are some times very close to the the 180.
DQ- dis qualification , the end of your match for the day. There are very specific mandatory DQ actions and events and all of them require match director notification.
things like breaking the 180
finger in the trigger guard while clearing a malfunction.
certain accidental discharges.
drawn or loaded gun before make ready command



I do accept there is a time when it may be acceptable to flag some one on your own team and that time is during an active fire fight and it still isn't good just the lesser evil.
but we are way off topic of hunters ed

The parent can fill out a paper saying" I have and will train my child." Thanks, but no thanks. The class does not guarantee safe gun handling any more than a parents promise. However, I thought we agreed parents would be better at enforcing gun safety than a mandatory class once in a lifetime.

do you also think new drivers should be entirely taught by parents and no test , no class ne behind the wheel with and instructor?


parents need to be the enforcers and one mandatory class once in a lifetime isn't a guarantee.


having worked with a bunch of kids and parents , I encourage them to take the class with their kids.
the state course is a minimum training to get people to a starting place in development and I will be the first one to point that out same as writing a test for your learners permit.

you are approaching this from a very different place than most parents , you probably would be the better trainer.
but sometimes kids getting the message from more than one place is a good thing.
in shooting sports training we sometimes have to take a step back and have one of our colleague do some training with our kids and us with theirs , they sometimes need to hear something a different way , from someone they don't see ever day.

that is why it is great if the parent takes the time to attend or take the hunters ed or trappers ed with the youth.

the new online with youth field day is basically just taking the test.

then it is on the parents to continue the training from there it helps if the parent or person who will be doing the further training has been present for the initial training , it should be approached as a start and not the certificate of certification.

in WI you can teach your kid on your own land and they can hunt small game with no license or hunters ed on your land.
you just can't buy a Deer license without Hunters ed if you were born after 1972

the hunters ed is to use state lands or licensed hunts

I am not much for government mandated training I do think far to often it is sold as something other than the minimal competency test it is

heck I wouldn't mind if they called it a minimal competency certification right on the certificate same for the 4 hour training for concealed carry. drive home the point that it is the start of training not the finish line.

Driving is a little more complicated than gun safety. However, I would not have any problem with parents teaching it and having a State administered competency ( not Automatic pass) test to insure they have some minimum level of driving skills and know the rules of the road to use public roads.. Since I homeschooled my children, I'm pretty sure that was the system I used.