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Who wants to be a lure maker. #7860779
05/06/23 07:14 PM
05/06/23 07:14 PM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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Anyone know what I am doing here?


[Linked Image]

Weighing the desired amount. It is not what is shown on the scale. My hands will smell very nice for several days after handling the beans and splitting them.

[Linked Image]

Adding material to a jar of solution. Notice the bleeding beginning in the bottom of the jar even before I have completed the loading process.

[Linked Image]

What it looks like after 1 shake. The color has begun to change to a gold caramel shade. It will continue to darken to a maple syrup color along the way.

[Linked Image]

Putting raw material back into cool storage for its next use.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860799
05/06/23 07:52 PM
05/06/23 07:52 PM
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Maine
beezmador Offline
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Iíll take a stab at it - tincturing vanilla?


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Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860809
05/06/23 08:09 PM
05/06/23 08:09 PM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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Starting a new batch of Vanilla Extract 3 fold strength. Good assessment there Beezmador. A very high Octane flavor and ingredient when it comes to maturity in 8 to 12 months or so.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860824
05/06/23 08:35 PM
05/06/23 08:35 PM
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Posts: 527
Maine
beezmador Offline
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Lucky guess Bob wink. So the short time the vanilla was in the solvent will take that many months to come to maturity? Is it that the odor will continue to change even though the vanilla is no longer in the solvent or the alcohol will burn off in that time period?


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Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860844
05/06/23 08:56 PM
05/06/23 08:56 PM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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Full extraction takes a long time to thoroughly draw it out. Vanilla has many odor stages. The more it ages the better and stronger the extract becomes. The solvent agent will never burn off if the container is sealed well. I always make 3-fold strength extract with most of our ingredients. You can't buy stuff this good that is affordable. I make about 4500 ml at a time.

The solvent is very good and begins extracting within minutes. I split the beans lengthwise but keep them intact. The splitting exposes the caviar faster and will speed up part of the process since it doesn't have to bleed thru the exterior husk of the bean to get released.

I mark the containers volume level when I start the batch. This indicates the beginning start marker line. This will indicate how much evaporation if any has occurred over the extraction time frame. The volume level remains stable once you take the right measures to contain the material. It is a good practice to monitor that marker level weekly to look for evaporation issues.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860901
05/06/23 10:30 PM
05/06/23 10:30 PM
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Yes sir Online content
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I got to ask Bob, how long do you leave the mother material in there? Is the stuff in the pic that your putting back in storage the stuff you just put in in the tinture? From the pics it looks like you just put it in there for part of the day then took it out. Or is it taken out of a mature batch?

Last edited by Yes sir; 05/06/23 10:31 PM.
Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860913
05/06/23 10:47 PM
05/06/23 10:47 PM
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ozark trapper ia Offline
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My other half is in a co op to get vanilla beans. I know some came from madagascar and 3 other countries. Some have been soaking for almost 2 years. She likes everclear to tincture. I used 80 proof vodka for some things. I have to really beg to get any of her vanilla LOL

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860915
05/06/23 10:52 PM
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ozark trapper ia Offline
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Madagascar Uganda papua newguinea are her top three.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7860937
05/06/23 11:35 PM
05/06/23 11:35 PM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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The prepped beans will remain in the solvent for a long time. I will start more batches tomorrow. Hopefully these containers should last me for several years once they have run full term. What is in the bag are more prime bean pods I keep vacuum sealed that are left over. Nothing quite like the stuff we make ourselves in house. This odor will act like a Tonquin or Civet Musk once completed. Vanillin is a wonder odor and ingredient. New Guinea beans here.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861144
05/07/23 10:56 AM
05/07/23 10:56 AM
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papabear! Offline
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In addition to its very pleasing odor, "vanillin" is also a good fixative


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Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861206
05/07/23 01:13 PM
05/07/23 01:13 PM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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Yes, papabear that was implied in my explanation. Some folks will figure that out on their own over time. Baby steps as they say.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861469
05/07/23 09:33 PM
05/07/23 09:33 PM
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bearcat2 Offline
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So if I understand correctly you leave the beans in the solvent for 8-12 months? When you say it acts like tonquin or civet musk it reminded me that when I first smelled tonquin I thought it had a kind of vanilla like odor. Still I had not thought of using vanilla in a canine lure like tonquin.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861572
05/08/23 07:14 AM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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Yes or longer and yes. Chemistry is interesting.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861693
05/08/23 10:57 AM
05/08/23 10:57 AM
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NY
papabear! Offline
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C'mon boys and girls, Mr. Jameson has offered up a an opportunity to pick his brain and gain some very useful information here!


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Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: papabear!] #7861768
05/08/23 01:33 PM
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mike mason Offline
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I assume the tonka bean tincturing takes the same amount of time?

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861776
05/08/23 01:52 PM
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Bob Jameson Offline OP
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I have some new Tonka beans coming from France in the next couple of weeks. Most natural occurring plant-based materials, beans and roots etc. require considerable time to reach full maturity. That is considering your solution and storage conditions are good, and you haven't cut any corners in your prep work, and you use a good percentage volume of the mother material to achieve your end fold goal odor.

Just think of these processes as a distiller does. A good brandy or whiskey requires years of aging in charred wooden oak barrels to get the best desired flavor from the liquor. To achieve a high-quality strength and flavor from Vanilla Beans, Civet Musk or Tonka Beans is much the same. You can surely get some benefit by using material sooner like in a few months but the difference between a few months and a year or more is quite remarkable.

Side by side comparisons would do justice to this statement.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861883
05/08/23 06:18 PM
05/08/23 06:18 PM
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Lazarus Offline
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Mr. Jameson keeps mentioning one factor over and over that most lure makers/trappers just don't get -- the effect of time. I have ruined and perfected more lures based on time than anything else. Knowing the ingredients and the quantities of a formula is only a fraction of the information needed to produce a good product. Time (and temperature) will determine whether you have garbage or gold.

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7861995
05/08/23 09:52 PM
05/08/23 09:52 PM
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papabear! Offline
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When properly tinctured / extracted over sufficient amount of time the materials Mr. Jameson mentioned above most generally mature into an end product that has a very pleasing perfumy type overtone to their odor. Now one must figure out why would these type odors be attractive to critters? And yes Mr Jameson chemistry is interesting.


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Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7862035
05/08/23 11:12 PM
05/08/23 11:12 PM
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Yes sir Online content
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What happens if you don't figure out why an odor is attractive to a critter? I use Asafoetida in several formulations. I think it's some kind of tree sap from India or something. Works well but I have no idea why..
grin

Re: Who wants to be a lure maker. [Re: Bob Jameson] #7862186
05/09/23 08:33 AM
05/09/23 08:33 AM
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NY
papabear! Offline
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Mr Yes sir, How did you arrive at the decision to use Asafoetida in several of your formulations? I've read several posts authored by you on this forum where you advise that each individual ingredient must prove its attractiveness through thorough testing before you consider that ingredient for use in your formulations. Thats very sound advise!..... As an experienced lure / bait builder what thought process do you use to arrive at the choice of a particular ingredient (s) to test before you incorporate it into your formulations?

Over the past 40+ years I too have worked with a bunch of common and not so common ingredients. My research on Asafoetida revealed that its make up is mainly that of a methyl sulfide and has like chemical components found in skunk, weasel, mink musk's and varying amounts in canine urine. I personally don't use a lot of Asafoetida but will on occasion use a little bit to spike some urine or enhance a gland-based concoction.


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