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Reloading question #7897431
07/02/23 01:53 AM
07/02/23 01:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline OP
trapper
robert.d12  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2015
Fingerlakes New York
To all you fellow reloaders out there. What’s your process for finding the most accurate load for your rifle? There’s so many variables (powder, powder amount, bullet, primer, OAL, ect.) that you could try different combinations forever. What seems to make the biggest difference and where do you start?


The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897436
07/02/23 02:33 AM
07/02/23 02:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
It's been near a decade since I chased one hole groups. Yes you can try combos forever and wear out barrels playing with them.

I started win the bullet I liked best for the purpose, then normally the powder that filled the case, got the velocity I was looking for with the least powder. Primers I liked cci br2 for large rifles. Seating death on some were off the lands a touch other max mag length. Depend on the rife and purpose.

Now days I don't have time to shoot even though there is a 500 yard range out back.

Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897453
07/02/23 05:55 AM
07/02/23 05:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Chesapeake, Virginia
D
Doug Lee Offline
trapper
Doug Lee  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Apr 2007
Chesapeake, Virginia
Hand written records of load details!
Doug
*

Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897468
07/02/23 07:01 AM
07/02/23 07:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
I started loading a couple years ago, and got good help from several on T-man, plus others. Quickly found out it is easy to get loads that go BANG and in most guns will shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards. But to wring out another 1/2" to get to 1' or better, the curve goes straight up. But first and foremost, the gun has to be capable, as does the shooter. If all that is good, then as discovered, the places to look are nearly endless. Case prep, powder, bullets, seating depth, crimp (or none). Once you understand it all, and get geared up for it, that is pretty easy process to follow, but you will be shooting at least 30 t0 50 rounds to get anywhere.

Have two guns that were easy to get to 3/4" groups. Have another that I've shot more trying to get it to that level than in several decades combined shooting factory ammo for hunting. At some point, you have to accept it is the gun, and there is way more to that than most people realize.

BTW, it also helps to define "accuracy" expectations. My purpose is to load hunting ammo to 1 MOA or better accuracy at factory level velocities.

Last edited by HayDay; 07/02/23 07:07 AM.

Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897479
07/02/23 07:29 AM
07/02/23 07:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
P
Providence Farm Offline
trapper
Providence Farm  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Well stated hay day. I have a rifle that will shoot 5 rounds at 100 into under .29. I had it built for that.

My first rifle I tried to get tight groups out of was a penile barrel 700 with the factory iron sight I found at a yard sale for $250.00. I worked the trigger and floated the barrel. After 800 rounds trying different load combos I finally can to the conclusion it was an 1.25" gun at its best. I ended up training it for a bible vers ta 31 Acog. And had a semi custom built to shoot small groups.

Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897495
07/02/23 07:59 AM
07/02/23 07:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
start with a chronograph. Reloader or Vihtavuori powder. lapua brass. when you find the most consistant velocity your at a real good place


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897523
07/02/23 08:36 AM
07/02/23 08:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
meadowview, Virginia
E
EdP Offline
trapper
EdP  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Mar 2012
meadowview, Virginia
The question was about finding the best load and not triggers, barrels, bedding, the shooter, or any other aspect of getting good groups, so finding a load for a rifle is what I will respond to.

First off I prefer to start with Sierra GameKings because they are a bullet that I have confidence in. I try to find a load from on-line sources that has worked for someone else, ideally in the same rifle model I am working with. The on-line info is ALWAYS checked against reloading manual data and data published by bullet and powder mfgs. Whether it is from on-line or manual data, that is my starting point for a bullet/powder combo. I tend to select powders that are identified as "most accurate" or at least provide a high fill ratio.

I start with a powder charge about midway between min and max and load 20 cases. Five at each of the following bullet jumps: .005", .010", .015", .020". I generally find one of those bullet jumps stands out from the others and that is what I use for further development. Throughout the process, all loads are fired over a chrono and cases carefully checked for pressure signs. This all is done with fire formed cases with the shoulder set back .002-.003".

Next I will load and shoot 20, 5 with the same powder charge used above and each additional 5 with powder charge increased by 1/2 grain. This gives me a second check on the jump selected to ensure it was not just a fluke group. Depending on max load from published data I may repeat this but generally don't approach max closer than 1 grain. I will typically find 2 successive powder charges that give the best groups and similar good ES and SD. I load and shoot 10 each of these and select the best based on group size. Sometimes the best group doesn't have the best ES and SD stats, but I never get good groups without good stats.

With this process, 60 shots in all, I can usually get a quality rifle shooting sub MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yds.

Note that other folks will find a powder charge they like first and then work with different bullet jumps and that works for them. I prefer to find the jump that works first because changing the jump with the same charge affects pressure and therefore velocity. If pressure and velocity affect accuracy then changing jumps changes two parameters and I prefer to change just one at a time. Also, you can read on other forums about methods that require far less loads. Those methods may work for those people for their applications and may be a better approach than mine, but this is what works for me.


Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897581
07/02/23 09:58 AM
07/02/23 09:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
MT (Big Sky Country)
A
Allan Minear Offline
trapper
Allan Minear  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Jun 2010
MT (Big Sky Country)
I agree with what's been mentioned above and will add a little also .


Get a Dewey cleaning rod with plenty of patches and solvent when you sit down at the bench and have fired the 5 shots allow the firearm to cool off and clean the barrel until its spotless and finish with a dry patch to insure a dry bore then start over .

If breaking in or seasoning a new barrel use reduced loads and a tight fitting patch soaked with solvent working over the throat and end of the barrel will get you your best results .

Looking at the accurate loads listed for whatever caliber is a good starting point as long as its not a maximum load then start with a lower charge working towards it .

This is another situation when you can get different answers as there are people , I wish you well on your quest on finding a pet load for your guns .


You're friend along the snare line .
Allan
Re: Reloading question [Re: robert.d12] #7897587
07/02/23 10:02 AM
07/02/23 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
The reason I mentioned the gun.........I was doing something similar to what EdP outlines for one rifle and was close to 100 rounds down the pipe before I began to suspect I had an optics problem, which I did. Leupold replaced the scope. After that, things improved, but then a whole nuther layer of gun related problems surfaced, and that meant close to 200 rounds down the pipe for nothing.

Most factory rifles should shoot 1 1/2" to 2" groups with factory ammo. If not, better get that sorted before attempting to fine tune handloads. I tried loading for a Mossberg Patriot youth gun and with the scope that came on it, it would not shoot better than 5 inch groups at 100 yards using factory ammo. No handload is going to fix that.

But beyond that, my process is very much as EdP outlines above, except I go powder charge first. That is a big knob. Seating depth a fine knob. If bullet and case allow for it, I now start 20 thou off the lands and do load workup from there, then fine tune with seating depth. My load workup consists of checking at least 3 independent load data sources for the powder and bullet I'm using, then pick a max load. Using max as the baseline, load increments are 1% of max........loading 3 rounds each of 10 increments. That backs start loads 10% off max in modest increments appropriate to the overall charge. Then shoot the 30 rounds......round robin......allowing barrel to cool between shots. Best group close to max load wins. Then attempt to fine tune it by decreasing seating depth in .003 increments.........10 each of those........another 30 rounds. By the time you get done with all that, you ought to know if it will work. If not, start over with something else.

And all that just a tiny segment of the overall process.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
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