This is going to be my first year trapping . And my area is over run with coyotes. What would be the best commercially available coyote baits and lures to use in the NE ? I know there will be a ton of opinions but Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance
Jim

The folks who advertise and comment here are all good. Best advice mix it up. Remember the old saying. Sometimes curiosity killed the coyote. lol but true. Good luck and enjoy.

Test everything
The yotes will let you know what is best

Get a couple, try them out, take notes. You can test ahead of season as well if you dont want to waste time on unproductive stuff during season. Most importantly is put the bait on location

Your best lure or bait is one that is put in front of your target animal. You figure that out first and you should be busy skinning. Learn to make a couple good clean sets and you will be on track.

If you’re “over run with coyotes” then it’s not really gonna matter. Look up the man above mines lures and baits. I like his canine choice and any bait he has. It’s when you have very few coyotes that it makes a difference.

This!

That’s like asking the Ford , Chevy, dodge question lol. There is no best. You’re gonna have to try a bunch of different ones to figure out what you like and what seems to work for you. That said I’ve had good success with powder river paste bait, several of mark junes lures, horse meat based baits are my favorite.

Test before season and after. When u find a good one you will see the difference. Testing will help become a better trapper too. Help you pick good locations, learn how coyotes work different sets, give you confidence in what your using along with numerous other things. Trouble with asking this question is everyone's opinion of what's good is different based of one's experience and expectations.

Will add I'd wait for some cooler weather to test. Real hot temperatures seem to make it harder to get reactions, which can be good if your really looking for the best, but might be a bit frustrating for a beginner.

You make a good point. What works well in = South Kansas = South Texas = or South Alabama. May not work at all in West Texas or East New Mexico sheep country!

Beaver and castor are hard to beat

Thanks for the input everyone. I wasn’t looking for an easy way out I just wanted a starting point and I have some now . Looks like we got some scouting to do. Thanks again.

Buy some GOOD URINE,Bob J. has good urine as do a few other's,same thing with bait's there are quite a few good comerical baits out there try some bobcat based and horse meat base,pick GOOD LOCATIONS bed the trap well and you'll be busy skinning and catching good luck.

Dakota Prairie Predator bait is and excellent bait,bobcat base with lots of other extra's mink gland being one of them,normally you don't go wrong with mink under tones for coyotes,Cletis has bobcat and horse meat bait which have been good,Marty Smith from Keg Creek has some excellent baits as well,Payne's bait are very good,Cletis bought them Ranch Hand,Cowboy Up and Spur Em Up I had excellent luck with,LOCATION ,LOCATION,ANIMALS NUMBER'S and bed the trap well equals success.Hope this helps.

Here's what I think of that statement!
https://youtu.be/TcoZad8496s

I tested 5 lures made from one of your "excelent" lure makers and every single one failed in my area. Infact, I'll take you all one step further, I tested the very same 5 lures from the previous manufactuer, the one he bought the business from and they all failed!!!! That's right, I spent my $$ twice for then same FN chit because I hoped the new owner had made positive changes to the original recipes he'd bought. This is a good thing in one way and that is that apparently he followed the recipes!!! And people wonder why when I was trapping coyote I wouldn't spill my guts on request, well the $$ was 1/2 the reason and I could only hope my competition used the worthless chit around me!! LMAO!

I understand some baits and lure doesn't work in all locations through out the states,but you guy's keep slamming everything that has worked well for me and many other trappers.There isn't any lure/bait that is MAGIC in the bottle and never will be.I trap 10 1/2 months a year,conrol trapping livestock protection and fur trapping.I agree there are some lure,bait and urine out there,that catch more trapper's than fur,let the OP try baits and urine and he'll tell us if they worked for him or not.I'm betting he'll do well with some of the above baits and urine that were stated.

How in the world do you know what you use is the best you could use??? Can you objectively quantify each lure’s results against the others?? It’s not my fault that you’re pimping for someone who you say you’ve have had excellent success with their products. I give a rats arse how many months a year you trap where you do but you don’t trap where I do so when you make overloaded or all encompassing statements about certain manufacturers products you only know they supposedly work for you where you trap.

WOW! We are trying to help other trapper's on here,I'm not pimping anyone and I stated above that all lures and baits don't work equally in different parts of the county upper midwest,central etc.I get it that they didn't work well for you,but the OP wanted a starting point to begin with,now he has some to consider.

Think there’s a bait/lure maker named night owl lures in New York. May be a good place to start to the OP. I have never used any of their stuff so can’t recommend one way or another

There is no “one” lure or bait. I’ve tried a lot of different manufacturers and have a favorite from a few of them. Some did nothing for me, but there are some that will always have a place.
Most are from not from “well known” manufacturers either and none from around my area, lol. Just something about that particular lure the critters like.
Heck I got some I wanted to try out, second hand, from a guy I KNOW catches coyotes in my State and they didn’t work for him, BUT they work for me and my son.
I hope no one takes this wrong because I’m not a great trapper, but critters during winter can be taken with just about anything down here. A cheeseburger wrapper from Micky D’s will work. Winter time makes me look like a professional, lol. It’s those warm season critters where things get a lot harder for me. When food is plentiful and mating is over is when you’ll find what works for you. I realize some can’t trap year round and I guess that’s when testing comes into play and to be honest, that’s when I’d think that it’s the best time to see what works.

Let me throw another twist into this discussion: a particular lure's effectiveness will fade over time when used in/near same general area/properties.

Exposure of that lure to the critters may be one reason. Another is differences in batches over the years.

Yeah...some are already about to pounce on me for the exposure excuse and say that a caught critter has been exposed it's last time. Yep...but possibly not the critter that was with the one captured or the ones missed....that got a whiff of your favorite lure.

I like that Swamp Wolf ! Habitualiztion to lure does happen. MORE in area with low coyote density. THEN you have learned and taught behavior. I get grief from this statement but will say it anyway. When you use bait and lure and DO NOT catch that coyote. You have educated him or her. Not a great amount BUT. Ever set s coyote comes to with bait. He or she is educated. To some small level

Now wait a minute, I was crucified for stating that once, lol. I keep a track of what’s used where and swap it up from time to time on properties, especially hitting the same property in the same year.

Good notes. Matter ! LoL!!

Wasn't me that crucified you. Must have been a lure maker...lol

I think its a good idea when trapping public ground to use a variety of lures because you don't know if someone had made a sloppy set in the area using the same lure and educated the coyotes.

Hard to beat fresh bloody deer liver, plus it’s free in a lot of situations

That was absolutely proven in my area during the fur boom of the 70s-80s with fox. Every hardware store had either Hawbakers 500 or Lenon’s All Call or both on their shelves. Even in 1970 fox averaged $8 and in 1971 averaged $16!!! I know what I was making as a Journeyman Welder for Dow at the time so fox were “big $$”. Seemed like every able-bodied kid and man was buying traps and trying to trap fox. I remember being in one 40 acre field and there were two other people trying to trap fox with me. They never caught a fox but I did using an Arnold’s lure and my Disco set. Everything I did was purposely made different from all the others and it worked great.

Never forgot that era so I never talked about what scents or sets I used since. I know that my one cousin who was a very experienced trapper used Lenon’s and his line which came up against mine and my catch was either equal to or a little above his.

I believe from data gathered from both my "catch-to-set used" ratio and testing of a lure or bait AFTER a poor or a substancial drop in the catch ratio has occurred that this "difference in batches" is very real. I also believe that a difference can be slight enough that I persoanlly can't detect the difference with my nose and sometimes, as with the 2019 White Label/Yellow Label deal, I can. Using a camera is a huge asset when testing the slightly different lures/baits because the coyotes absolutely WILL tell you that there is a difference and that the scent does not instill the anticipated desire verifying the catch-to-set used" ratio drop.

By using the process I just described, I have come to believe that the difference in batches/vintages can be one of the main contributing factors towards why a scent works for someone but not another.

remember fred trost on michigan outdoors? he got sued for exposing the truth on deer lures. they said it was 100 deer pee , he went to the place of manufacture and it was all cow pee!

Absolutely, I remember that era very well. Old Fred was a driven man by golly!

I’ve had baits even come different from one year to the next, and what made that bad is I talked someone into getting that bait. He said this smells like a sewer and it’s runny. I had to check it out for myself and he was right. He sent it back and they replaced it. The consistency was better, but the smell was still off. Needless to say I haven’t bought that bait again.

This^^^ is why I make my own coyote baits.

I do buy some commercial lures, but rarely buy bait. The baits I have purchased over past few years were 8oz jars of mild smelling baits such as Just Mice amd Kaatz Red Label. I spike these baits and use like lure in small amounts.

That’s part of the reason I’m getting into making my own as well. After seeing lure/bait makers phase out due to retirement or whatever, I decided I wanted to have some form of control over what I was using and not have it disappear right when I was building confidence in it. I’ve got about 2 gallons of one I feel like is pretty good. I also have about a gallon and a half of commercial stuff laying around so I imagine I’ll be set for awhile! Sure it won’t stop me from fooling with other stuff nonetheless

LIKE

Sp 94 i have been watch a few of the videos you posted. Looks like you are getting some good responses to what you are using..

You get one they hitting on pretty good, hit me up, lol.
I bought the 2.5gal of bobcat from MTP and added my own “ingredients”

OP, my advice to you would be to discuss this with guys that have thousands of coyotes to their name and do not have anything for sale

Lots of guys measure success differently. Most guys are happy catching 15 or 20 coyotes in a season and then come on the internet and speak as experts. Nothing wrong with having an opinion, but I take these with a grain of salt, especially when they contradict what big numbers guys with nothing for sale will tell you. Beware of guys that spend more time behind computer screens and trail cameras than they do pounding steel in the ground as well.

All that being said, I am not one of those huge numbers guys, but I do well enough. I have definitely had more success with some baits than I have had with others, and I have never been steered wrong by the opinions of a man who has to kill coyotes to feed his family

Slipknot, Ive got a few that that particular batch of critters likes. Whats most important to me is seeing what doesnt work (bought or homemade). I hate wasting time on less than attractive baits/lures when I have traps out. I know some of them would catch in the fall, but I am looking for the ones that seem to provide the most attraction. Im sure it backfires sometimes though. I sold some lure that got 0 interest in front of a camera last summer to Wannabe and he has had very good luck with it from what I understand.

Wannabe, not for sale east of the Mississippi.... just kidding. Ill use it heavily this winter and see how it stacks up against the commercial ones I use. What I saw when I tested bobcat bases both fresh and tainted was that it ranked pretty low in attraction here. Ive spoken to some other guys who feel the same. I ended up with some of the cat meat from MTP and have caught some critters on it, but have decided to go other routes with anything I am making currently. I have a couple gallons of fresh frozen cat meat in the fridge I need to do something with though so maybe I will start experimenting again.

I could not disagree more!

Disagree more? Huh?

The guys with thousands of coyotes under their belt have thousands of coyotes to catch, lol. I’m nowhere near any of them in skill or expertise, but if you have that many coyotes, anything works. A first time trapped property and I can pee beside a dirthole with a can of sardines thrown in it and catch. Anything to eat is good enough with that many coyotes. Trap that same property or knock the population way down and then a good bait and lure is needed.

I don’t equate numbers with a special bait or lure. I equate it to a large population and an exceptional work ethic to place that many sets and go from daylight until dark and then some.

Yup, you F-N right I do!

This

What's so funny is you can take guys that have caught thousands of coyotes and they dont agree either

You aren't wrong there. There is an old saying in dog training that applies here: "The only thing two dog trainers can agree on is that the third is doing it wrong"


We will agree to disagree then Seldom. The fellows I am referencing are paid to trap coyotes for damage control. They aren't catching the easy ones and rolling on. They are catching them all. You have a style that works for you, and like I said before I respect that!

Wanna Be I think you have it right. Its about hard work. Here is an example. Craig Ogorman = James Lucero. Both men have had years with over 1300 coyotes per year caught. One man = Craig Ogorman uses lots of bait and lure and sets lots of traps. The other man = James Lucero set less traps and use’s NO bait and very little year. The area they both trap BOTH had lots of coyotes And their trapping styles??? Completely opposite. What did they both have in common???? A great work ethic!!! I have never went to see James Lucero over the past 3 years. That we didnt end up = working = bottling some lure in the shop. Or working on a crossbow. Even at 86. He still has a good work ethic

interesting thread.

mac

Here's my problem with what you said. First I've talked to many trappers that have thousands of coyotes to there credit and some of them can be polar opposite on there opinion on lures and baits which contradicts your statement that they can never steer you wrong. I've come to believe that you don't put much value in testing based off what you've stated here and in other posts so let me say this. The guys that test do so for one reason and one reason only, it's because the want the truth. They aren't intrest in theories, biases or opinions. They want the truth from the coyotes. Coyotes aren't bias and it's not difficult to find out what the coyotes have more attraction to. I visit and share information with many guys that test and you would be surprised at how much their findings line up with each other's no matter if they are out west, back east, down south or up north. A guy that is willing to invest the time and money to test is a guy that only truth and results matter. There's no bias, theory or agenda involved in testing. Most won't do it because they dont want to put in the time or $ to do it. The guy that will is only doing for the truth. Never talked to one single person that's tested that said it wasn't worth it or what they learned a bunch or it didn't correspond with what they saw on the trap line. Even if you only listen to the guys that have caught thousands of coyotes you will have to decide which one is right and which one is not so much. So how do you pick. How about see what the coyotes tell you. You changed you approach based on the opinions on some trappers that have caught thousands of coyotes and you caught more coyotes. That's great but if your a thinker and learner I'd bet your skill level at the other aspects of trapping increased also which would have helped your catch. Also the population could have contributed to the higher catch rate. Just because you changed something and it increased your catch from previous years means it's the best method it just means it's better than what you was doing. Lot of mediocre(at best) lures out there. My guess is a lot of people who don't like lures just haven't tried a good one. One good trapper I've visited with said he's tried a ton of different lures and 95% of them never go back in his bag. Just food for thought. As far as the magic lure or bait every critic refers to that can catch every coyote that smells it I can say in my short trapping career I've never seen that said or advertised by anyone but maybe those claims are out there as a lot of critics refer to this in their defense.

It is ! I am enjoying it ! Sitting here in = sheep trappera shack. Checked about 20 sections today 1 coyote in snares. Im = filling up 5 gallon buckets with water. Making ice. And crimping a few snares. And reading on T man. Good day so far

I dont use bait anymore. Its doesnt work well here or keep well. BUT in the day I used it. I WOULD use it again. Certain place I work. Works well in = rounding up pups and juvenile coyotes. Lure is what I use most. I try to keep an open mind. When I went years a go to take 5 days worth of lessons from = James Lucero. What impressed me most ??? He was still open to learning and experimenting with different sets and lures

Yes Sir, that was a SUPER reply! Well written!

Most full time professional trappers do things way differently with sets, lures, traps, trap placement, etc. Yet they all catch truckloads of predators a piece. Find what works for you and be confident in your sets.

Yes sir, interesting reply. For the sake of old goats like me, would you consider breaking up your paragraphs? It would be so much easier to read and digest,
especially for an old set of eyes.
Thanks.

Still a most interesting thread.

Mac

Will try to do better

I just put a piece of paper cross my Iphone. Pull it down line per line ! LoL!

I do find the idea of = Lure test to be interesting though. I just dont have the time. When I test a lure. It has a trap in front of it ! LoL!

Yes Sir. One thing that does interest me the most. What lure holder do yall use????? I have been down this road before. Bamboo sticks. Cotton 6 inch sticks. Now its on to grub stakes ? 2 days 2 weeks 2 months. That how long it may take a coyote to come back by in this country. WHAT ? Will hold lure the best ? Its like 8 to 15 % max on humidity. So lure. In this country doesnt hold well. The 6 inch cotton sticks?? Workes great in South Alabama!!! Here ? In bout a week cotton part ? Its gone ? Wind ? Insects? Other? Dont know. Thata why = grub stakes. SO. Yall that test lure. Whats the best thing to put it on??? The search never stops for me ! LOL !

I agree with a lot of what you said here Yes Sir. I 100% agree that there is no magic/secret lure. What’s the old saying, “There is no substitute for hard work.”

You are also absolutely right that we evolve and improve in each season of trapping outside of lure selection. Something that helped me tremendously was streamlining my operation and not trying to make 15 different sets.

One point of correction, I didn’t say those guys would never lead you astray. There are guys that are full of it in all circles, and trapping is no different. I was fed some of that when I first started trapping coyotes around 13-14 years old. It took me quite some time to see that the guys I was taking advice from were just mediocre guys with something for sale. On the flip side of that coin I had a couple guys take me under their wing and teach me a lot, and I’m forever thankful for that. In that aspect testing with cameras could have absolutely saved me time!

I think a great point to bring up here is the winner of the New Mexico coyote trapping contest that won it using KFC chicken, dirt hole sets and good urine. That trapper won that competition against some of the best in the nation something like 4 years in a row. Not because he had a better, more tested lure or bait, but because he could outwork the competition.

There is no substitute for being on location with a quality set. Streamlining that operation means you can put in twice the number of sets as your competition. Where you guys may put more time in camera testing, I may put more time in acquiring more trapping ground or scouting locations. We both have our ways to ensure our success once trapping season rolls around, and I don’t believe neither is wrong, one is just not my approach.

I really enjoy discussion like this, good luck this season Yes Sir!

I'm not to much help here. I have a good population of coyotes. Maybe not like SW Kansas but a good population here. And I have proven areas to test. 90% of my testing is down a dirt hole. I want to know which one they like enough to dig for and if comparison testing, which one they will dig for the most.Just the lure or bait. No holder.

90% of my test sets get worked on day 3 if they get worked. Never had to really fight low humidity during warm temperatures so can't advise there.

I did catch a coyote 82 days after luring a step down dirt hole that was under water and frozen solid at least twice once. And had a trapper up north this winter catch two coyotes in sets that got snowed in under several feet of snow for 100 plus days then melt off on some stuff I sent it him. Think he had that stuff out on only a handful of sets.

Can't say that ive tested stuff in your conditions but part of making a good formulation is truly fixing it and finding a good base that will hold an odor.

It would be interesting to test methods of holding odors in your conditions but I doubt I could do it here as are coyotes don't range that big and they find it too soon. My experience is after a couple visits coyotes lose intrest and around here that happens after about a week or so.

Coondagger2 I also enjoy these discussions about coyotes. Even if we disagree I can learn something or at least pickup food for thought.

Yes Sir. Camera batteries might go dead before the coyotes come back !! Record here for coyote returning is 64 days. LoL !

I do have. A 129 dollar 8 AA battery Moultree camera. But know nothing about it.

Got to be careful about what cameras u use. A lot will spook coyotes or at least put them more on guard. And there can be more of a learning curve to using them than what you would think, especially in windy areas.

I am only kidding. I have 1 old deer camera. We set it up at a friends. But their is a old bushnell here. We can use ! Lantern batteries LoL!

We don't have the numbers here so usually it's a one and done deal here. Usually they will come in and check it out then ignore it afterwards with their curosity satisfied. I can see with a higher population and competition being greater, many would come in to lures or baits that normally wouldn't draw much if any interest.

I can give a testimony to why I like testing. Last year I was trying three new baits that I didn’t have time to test. I used them in a rotation so equal amounts of each bait out on my trapline the first three weeks or so. Bait and good urine only. Didn’t mess with any lures. All three baits were holding their own with one front runner edging out the others. The problem came with what I noticed at sets where I didn’t catch. One of the baits if I missed them it would be a one or two print in the pattern miss. No multiple steps, no digging at the hole, just one sniff and move on. Now I was catching some on the first sniff, but pretty quickly put the bait back in my shed and went with the more attractive stuff. Pretty sure this was some of the same stuff I’ve seen you say you liked CD2 and I know it came from a guy who Bob used stuff from. I try to get all the land I can get to trap on, but I still can’t fill out a full season with new, big areas. As a result, I want to catch the most I can when I’m on a place. I’m no big numbers guy. About 50 canines/cats a year until I can pick up some more land. That May disqualify my opinion, but the coyotes do indeed tell me what is working and what is just mildly interesting since I’ve started letting them tell me via cameras

I’ll be honest at one point I was afraid this thread was going to go off the rails. And not only was I hesitant to post it originally but I was also worried about how the rest of the group would react. But I’m so glad I posted it. Being new to trapping is not only exciting but daunting. And to have a community like this is something special. I’ve read every comment and I’m learning a ton. I understand it comes down to time and work I put in and like anything else you love doing you have to invest in it with both time and money. I’m not afraid of doing both. Again I appreciate each and every one of you who have taken the time to read and reply on my post thank you again.
Jim

DoubleJ ask about choosing scents and the thread morphed into a testing thread as an aid toward determining the attractiveness of scents but there is another facet of testing that gets over looked and that is foot placement. The cameras will show repeated, inherent behavior of foot placement if the tester doesn’t use any visual or physical guiding which is the reason for only using a simple little test hole. This became even more obvious when I tested gland lures and grubstakes because the scent was above ground.

Just a few thoughts from an old man.
The lure and bait conversation will go on forever.
Ardell Grawe wrote in one of his books that there were only a handful of guys in the lure making business that really understood
all that was important in the lure and bait making game.

I have always thought he was right. Back when I used to trap more thus use more lure etc. I came to think there were but a handful of lure makers I would buy from.




In areas with a plethora of coyotes or foxes, those animals act differently than the same species in areas of lesser numbers. I know some of the experts will dispute this but they are the same guys that will say they do not think they have an advantage being able to check traps whenever they get to it. They will say that there is so much distance between fur pockets, the country is rough etc. etc. and the competition was bad. Trap in the East for tough competition. You have read about a great number of trappers going West for canines or cats. How many have read stories or articles of guys going East for trapping coyotes or cats?

I am good friends with a guy that has trapped all over the country. It was fun to hear him compare trapping fox in New England compared to Maryland or Southern PA.

Up in this country, back in the 70, 80s when prices were decent you had a tough time catching a 100 fox. Lots of hard work. You better have the stars aligned, plenty of time off, plenty of money for traveling, a tremendous work ethic and decent luck, not to mention you better know what you are doing.



Catching a 100 fox back then was a freaking feat of endurance in New England. I realize catching a 100 fox in some part of the country can be done in 2 or 3 days.

I do not give a crap what some experts say, fox under a ton of pressure become much more difficult. Not because they are smarter, just different circumstances play into animal behavior. I will suggest they are shyer

Why was it harder and different? Tough access to fur due to rough forested country and road systems, a skinny million gates to open and close.

Competition was through the roof, to catch a large number of those high dollar fox you had to cover a lot of ground. Maine weather, as is all of New England weather, is typically as bad as it gets concerning canine trapping.

My friend went to Maryland and part of PA for a few years. He would always come back shaking his head. His last day's catch when pulling a line would often be similar to his first check day. Just an amazing number of animals. He explained that the foxes down in that country were very competitive and not anywhere near as shy as say a Maine fox. Note I did not say smarter, I said shy.

What does all of this rambling mean?

While it is easy to say a coyote is a coyote, a bobcat is a bobcat, or a fox is a fox, yes biologically it is true.

But it is common sense that the environment, numbers of animals, numbers of trappers, the access to the country, the weather patterns etc. etc. makes it all interesting. Try setting just blind sets in the East if you are trapping bobcats!

Would anyone really expect a lure that tested out as a spectacular attractor when tested in a country that has a high number of canines to have the same reaction in a part of the country with low numbers?
My answer would be that typically the super attractor will have some attraction but I am betting the success will not be the same.

The lure and bait making business has always held a lot of fascination for trappers. There have always been a lot of trappers looking for magic in a bottle. That is a fact.

One of my favorite trapping writers and lure makers was the late Walter Arnold. He wrote in more than one place about how the success of lures would often vary from one section of the country to the other. I believe he was correct and that that theory still holds true today.

Because we are such a small demographic of the population, it does not seem logical to me that trappers should be getting all hot under the collar about a little stink in a bottle. We have bigger fish to fry.

Happy lure testing and happy trapping guys.

Mac

Another well written piece!

Someone needs to archive Macs post. Like put it at the top of the Trapping Only Forum. Great write up.

Mac
I have to ask for the sake of clarification, are you saying a a formulation developed in an area of high density coyotes can't be really good even in areas of low density and high pressure?

Neil has been around the block Mac and he knows the facts from his experience. Most that have trapped around the country for many years would most likely agree and share the same opinion.

Who is Neil?

Yes Sir. I WILL go ahead and say it. IT MIGHT NOT be !! Why ? Because IF it has some of the basic most widely used ingredients in its lure formulation the coyotes HERE may run from it ! Beleive it or not. West Texas sheep trappers ALL talk and get alone well. The USDA trapper down the road 20 miles. I am friends with. I answer ALL their questions. I am their elder ! LoL! They let me ride in the front of the truck last time we did denning work together = cause im the oldest But any way. IF South West Elemanator is killing coyotes. And is over used then = Thats a problem So we all talk. IF i get one of their coyotes = Im the bad ones on me. I know what NOT to use. I have lure that to my knowledge only 4 people has. That has got me bad sheep killing females that others couldnt catch before. Keep in mind. Here. A bad coyote doesnt = Scratch = Dig at dirthholes = walk around sets. A REALLY bad one just. Kills and leaves ! That a bad female and IF you dont catch her ??? She kills = leaves = comes back 2 months later

Well said steeltraps my friend.

Mac

ST
I fully believe high pressured coyotes can get conditioned to certain smells. Heck I got coyotes right here by my house I can't catch. But the way I read Macs comment is that it is ridiculous that a lure that test spectacular on coyotes in a high density population, test really good in a low density population.

To be clear when I say test good I'm talking on a comparative bases to other formulations. Im not talking about a catch rate of 1;10 in a high population then expecting that same catch rate in a low density area.

Rather a formulation that runs a higher than others catch rate in a high population area having a higher than others catch rate in a low population area. If that makes sense. When I say other I'm referring to other formulations. Or if testing a strong reaction to a particular formulation compared to other formulations.

Mac
We're you saying the same thing as ST that coyotes can get conditioned to certain smell or that it's ridiculous that a formulation that tests great in a high population will test great in a low population?

Yea Sir. Another problem maybe getting some guys in low density coyotes to test it ! IF you job is on the line. Might not be the best time to test ol Yes Sir’s new lure !! Ha Ha ! LoL ! But on a serious note. Once I trust a lure. And see it work for me = in medium coyote density I may try it in the sheep ! Jameson = Wesiner = Ogorman’s = that stuff = K9 Hitter I have all tested. And only NOW would I use them = right time. Right place in the sheep. I admit. = their are no majic lures. BUT when James Lucero gave me one and said = Only use it when you really need to stop killing. And it was his great grandfather lure. I consider it so different. That i have total confidence in it.

Yes Sir. I also believe. Their are SOME old female you just about cant catch. Blind Set or Mafia is ONLY way for somme. I caught a = female gummer = few teeth bout 5 months ago. With 4 traps and a pile of coyotes poop NOTHING else. Just right place. Location and I felt like she would come over and smell it !!! LoL!

For the record I sent my stuff to 3 guys that warned me they had very low coyote populations. Guys that I knew they knew coyotes, lures/baits and were straight shooters that wouldnt have no problem telling me the truth even if it wasnt good. One is a hall of fame trapper, one a big numbers fur trapper for his area and another is a government trapper in an area of very low population, high pressured coyotes. They get denned, called, trapped, aerial gunned and getters used there. I believe his district has one of the lowest if not the lowest coyotes killed per hour of flying.

Got tired of people down playing my results based on my high coyote population. Most who have never done any testing or have any experience in my area.
One of the expenses of being one of those that's looking for the truth not opions.
No shot at u ST traps as I enjoy discussing and debating coyotes with you.

I believe Lucero was from Ks and Milligan. I wonder if their formulations were developed on Ks coyotes.

Yes Sir. Sell me some ! We have a testing ground near New Mexico linel. I have caught up to 18 coyotes in 1 day their. If lure works fr me their = it goes to Far West Texas ranch. Hard coyotes Hard trapped by a Texan we respect for 20 years. IF i catch a coyote their = Then I take it to the Worst area of West Texas in sheep to use. Cause = THEN I have confidence in it !

James Lucero was in sheep in Kansas for many years.But born and raised in New Mexico I have and OLD lure he gave me. That we cant = Render down = the part we need that would be a good 1 for sheep

To the OP. I had to look it up. Was driving me crazy.= Ouachitia River Valley = K9 Hitter Lure. Bout 60 coyotes with it so far. I also like and used = John Grahams = Deception and Seduction. Jepson has a new 1. Collarum = caught 30 or so coyotes in past 2 years with it. Bob Jameson has a Mouse Musk. I got a pint of it. So far. Bout 10 -12 coyotes and 2 bobcats. I admit I am parshal to James Lucero lures. I think the world of James Lucero But I do use other lure. To keep from = Habitualling my coyotes

Chris, have you ever tried soaker hose? That's what I use.

Silky. Yes. Me and EF talked about that. Its good but I end up having about 90 we made. They look like those. Grab and Die on = John Grahams website. Soaker hose good ! I wanted to mass produce these. Thank