I am curious to hear what others have experienced over the years/decades in regard to fox vs coyote populations in their area.

Prior to 1986 ish here, we had fox. Lots and lots of fox and never saw a coyote. Then like a light switch the fox were all but gone and the coyotes were everywhere. Fox are making a slow comeback here but even the reds are now mainly holed up in town close to homes. Any fox caught in a coyote trap now is almost always torn apart by coyotes come morning. Of course some state DNR writings say coyotes have always been here and fox are doing great. I dissagree but would love to hear what other trappers have observed over the years.

My main question is: Did you see this seemingly wave of coyotes come in and displace the fox in your area at some point (and when did this happen)....or did you always have a mix?

Thank you for your observations.

Around here the coyote population was reduced significantly by the introduction of wolves. That in turn led to a big increase of foxes, and then a big decrease in the numbers of mountain grouse.

rural eastern side of WI, we have Red Foxes, see them occasionally on the property along with tracks in the winter. Had 3 young ones for a short time last summer that would sleep on top of our septic tank lids during the day.
I have never seen a coyote or tracks on the place. I have seen coyotes several miles from place tho. I would suspect that there are some coyotes but not many.

In the 80's and early 90's we had an excellent red fox population here in Manitoba out on the prairies-we could easily see over a hundred a day in winter after a blizzard or fresh snow dump. We would see the occasional coyote-but like one animal out of 3 hunting days. Once the price of foxes fell off the population got too high and was hit with mange etc.. and the coyotes began to populate and very soon after that the coyotes took over and the foxes were few and far between. Several of us witnessed the coyotes catching and killing a fox if it was caught out in an open field. So like Calvin has stated the foxes retreated to the urban areas and the heavier wooded sections. As far as the coyotes always being there-I call B.S.-at least not in any areas we hunted or trapped-out west may be a different story.

Its interesting how the wildlife guys make that sort of statement when they don't spend near the time out in the field as a trapper or predator hunter. Around here at least. They also told me when I was younger that we don't have Grey Fox in Manitoba-even though I had seen several when hunting grouse in our southeast corner of the province.

I have a picture of a farmer and myself with a dead coyote in our family owned bar in the late 70’s. That picture is supposedly one of the first coyotes seen/shot in our entire area. People drove from all over to see it and of course have a beer or two…. Year was around ‘77, eastern SD.

Coyotes started showing up here I’d say late 70s as mange had decimated the red fox population. But through the 80 and early 90s we still had a decent fox population including grays and just few coyotes. By 2000 grays disappeared completely and red’s became scarce and coyotes became the dominant canine with high numbers Today we have some reds close to buildings , towns, golf courses and heavily wooded bottom land . Reds may have adapted somewhat to coyotes. Grays extremely rare .

Thanks for all the insight, Guys. I'd love to respond to each and every post but I'll just let it roll.

I live in the red fox capital, just a few miles from Ron Leggetts house. Coyotes started to show up about 30 years ago and have steadily increased. Yet, there still is no noticeable reduction in red fox is this area. Grey fox are almost gone, that is a big question mark. Used to catch about 1 gray for every 15 reds. Haven't caught a gray in years.

My area didn't see yotes until the mid 80s. They were always in the upper part of the state but when the deer herds were lowered in numbers by new increased harvest limits they seemed to spread rapidly through the state.
We still have a decent red fox population but the grays are down in numbers in places where the yotes are in numbers.
Just my observation over the years

North Central Wi, 70's and 80's we had a good population of fox. Last 20 years very few, lots of coyotes, some wolves. Now I am seeing more fox the last two years, so I may go after a couple to tan this year.

Loaded with both Reds & Greys throughout the 60's & 70's.

Coyotes always present in the northern zone until the mid 1980's
when they started to migrate south and colonize our southern,
south-eastern, and south-western zones of upstate New York.

Very few greys in much of the state now although we are still
over run with them locally.

Reds are holding their own locally but scarce in much of the state.

I hate coyotes.

w

Caught 1st coyote here in deep southern GA in 1981. Showed him to several older folks and they didn't know what it was. It was a few years b4 I caught another. Now, they are definitely the dominant predator. For about a decade (90s into early 2000s) I'd catch coyotes and greys side by side. Made me think the greys were not affected much by the increasing coyotes. Now, I'm not so sure. But, greys could be struggling with distemper or some other disease?

Grey fox used to be thick nearly everywhere here thru the 80s and 90s. Then as time passed, there were less and less. There remained good pockets of high populations in a few areas into the 2000s. Today, I know of no area with good numbers of grey fox. I occasionally see a grey fox track here and there along dirt roads.

Red Fox have always been scarce here. Over the years have avg about 1 red for 20 greys. Like others, reds are near towns/cities/suburbs. Also, have caught a few in thick river & swamp bottoms. In the late 90s, I caught 205 fox...16 were reds.

According to Bob Young, head fur buyer for Pacific Hide and Fur GT Fall MT, in the 1940's and 50's and 60's Pacific bought about 100 coyotes to every red fox. The fox population started to increase, and by the early 1980's when I worked for them it was pretty close to equal coyotes and fox. They were the largest fur buyer in the area. They had days where they spent $100,000 across the counter buying fur. So according to Bob, the coyotes were there and the fox population increased.

Don't know when the coyotes started showing up around here but we have NO FOX of any kind in my area. And we have tons of coyotes.
Before coyotes stated showing up I was catching around 30 reds and 10 or so greys In a season. And that was just a few miles from the house.

Back in the 70's it was about 85% fox 15% brush wolf,the 80's 75% fox 25% brush wolf,90's about the same 75% 25%,00's 65% fox 35% brush wolves were getting better fur coyotes,10's 40% fox 60% coyote,20's 30% fox 70% coyotes this is what I've seen here in northern MN.Red fox,coyote %'s about every 5 years or so I will see a grey fox track,there has been a few caught around here in the last 25 years I know of 8 caught within 70 miles of here.From what I've seen this year the red fox is making a little come back,I think the higher prices paid for coyotes for awhile really helped and the wolves have helped the fox as well,that's the only good thing that has come from having a real healthy wolf population.

I've seen around here that the wolves have no problem eating a red fox. I've seen it several times and also had a couple fox in traps eaten by wolves. I haven't seen grey fox track in a couple years unless it's close to a town. I'd like to tan 1 of each for the wall but as of now the fox get a pass if I catch one.

Fox live in the cover around the farms/ranches here only time they travel is during the breeding season. Some years I get a few some years they seem to boom in locations. Some close to the interstate any place coyote prefer not to hang around at much. Never has a fox been ripped into by a yote in all my years but expected it to happen one day.

I see a lot of reds when visiting MO more than I’ve seen in other places lately.

I've one fox ate by a mangey wolf,and two that the wolve's played tug o war with,but not eaten.So out of 500 plus fox I can live with that.Interesting that you've had more eaten,I've had a few coyote's killed by wolve's,but not a lot and one bobcat put up a good fight against 4 wolve's,tug o war again,there were blood trails in the wolve's tracks leaving so I'm pretty sure that tom got some claws into their noses and face of the wolve's.

ttt

Been the same here in KS as long as I have lived here. 42 years now. Red fox in towns. Coyotes outside of towns. Scattered populations of a few greys in east KS.

In the 70's and 80's we still had a lot of red fox around here. In 1979 my wife saw the first coyote in our area on a farm my father trapped. We both thought she was nuts but that same week he caught the coyote. My father used to catch about 80-100 each year. Now we mainly have coyotes and only a few red fox. In the last 3 years, I've taken 98 coyote off my line. The first year, no red fox. The second year I had 3 and last year I had 6 so it seems we're getting a few more fox around. Our coyotes are worthless, averaging less than $5.00 but I'm still going to trap them this year just to keep the numbers in check. I'm also seeing more deer on the farm I hunt that I trap heavily for the coyote.

Lance that's the only reason I trap coyotes. Sad to say but they all got tossed.

In the early part of the 20 century there are no mention of coyotes here in the U.P. of Michigan,bountied predators were wolves,fox and bobcats,in Hardings "Fox Trapping" there's a chapter of a homesteader trapping fox and wolves are mentioned but again,no coyotes.Some writings from that time mention fox being numerous in different localities.Then sometime in the early 20th century as wolves disappeared coyotes starting showing up.In my experience here the only time fox are numerous is when coyotes get smacked good with disease.When mange showed up here in the 70's it really hit coyotes hard,then it was followed up by Canine distember.For a number of years for some reason these diseases didn't get into our fox population and with no coyotes to speak of they really took off,our 'cat population did real well too.During this time our fox population grew to some unbelievable numbers.Then the same diseases went thru the fox and they've never came back.We've had some pretty high coyote numbers periodically until diseases run threw them again,but fox have never rebounded.They seem to stay mostly in areas where coyotes are leery of like around town or close to farm homes.These are red fox that I'm talking about.

Still plenty of reds here. Coyotes don't seem to have reduced their numbers, but greys are very scarce

Around here it happened just like you described there Calvin, around the same time. The only difference is in the last couple years red fox have made a little comeback and not just in the urban areas. I worry though with our coyotes being basically worthless now, that that trend will be reversed. High fuel costs will keep a lot of shooters and trappers home more often as well.

My trapping buddy in college was from Dunkirk/Fredonia area and he used to clean up
on grey fox trapping the vineyards in Chautauqua & Cattaraugus Counties in the late 1970's.

He became an Encon officer after college,

You might know him: Kevin Budniewski.

He always caught more greys than reds.

Times change.

w

don't have many coyote around me, at least if and when we start getting more knocking the deer herd down will be an upside.

I don't trap canines much and I am not very good at it either. I started trapping in 1980 where I live now. I caught my first coyote in 1983-84 and was one of the first in our area from what I heard. most years single digit to a dozen reds with my best year 16 reds. A couple of greys the first years too. Now reds are scarce and ebb and flow with the mange. Yotes dominate in the more open areas, especially from where i live and west where field sizes are much larger. Reds den around abandoned farmsteads, on the edges of villages and in areas where quickness over speed is essential. Compared to the posts I review we don't have heavy populations of yotes and foxes are now limited at best. The area along Lake Michigan say from Kewaunee County all the way to say Port Washington and inland about 15 miles or so would be very good red habitat with coyotes around but the mange just decimates the reds, especially when the young are denning.

Bryce

My grandfather told me of a season that him and his partner bountied over 50 brush wolves in northern WI before WW I , he told me that when I was a boy, so over 60 years ago. At the time I did not know those were coyotes, but not timber wolves according to the guy that wrote the book on Wisconsin wolves 30 or so years ago. Same season they bountied over 100 bobcats, he never mentioned fox.

Eastern NC had no groundhogs when I was a kid, about 30 years ago they became numerous. Coyotes appeared later and groundhogs are gone.

Late sixties early seventies red and grey fox were abound in Illinois. Since the the song dog moved in we still have a few reds but greys are nonexistent