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Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: HayDay] #7921057
08/05/23 07:56 AM
08/05/23 07:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Y
Yellowbelly Offline OP
trapper
Yellowbelly  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Originally Posted by HayDay
That ought to be easy enough. BPI would be your source of BB's shot and wads. An M42 wad ought to hold at lest 1 1/4 oz BB shot, fit into a Cheddite, Fiocchi or even Federal Top Gun hull, and placed over some Longshot or HS-6, rev up to about 1200 to 1,300 fps. BB's are also small enough to fit into the shot cup in a random stack pattern.

Once you get up to buckshot, when placed inside modern wads, the traditional sizes start misbehaving. Traditional #00 buckshot has a diameter of .330, weights 1/8 oz pellet, and was stacked in 3's, but not placed in plastic wads, rather was placed over a gas seal then felt or fiber wads. The shot ran nekked down the barrel. But traditional #00 buckshot will only stack in 2's inside shot cup of a plastic wad. The thickness of the plastic shot cup takes up too much room. There are a few wads still available that will hold 8 pellets of #00 buck stacked in 2's........as in 2 x 4 = 8.......but not many and none for straight walled euro hulls.
I don’t have the recipe in front of me but it’s from bpi for number one buckshot I believe it’s a 2 3/4 cheddite hull hs18 wad and long shot powder. All witch is available online. What I’m trying to find is a bb load with the same component before I buy all the stuff. I switched to the number on buckshot this yea because my gun likes it vs #00 buck at 50 yards I was getting 90 percent of the pellets on an 18” shoot and see target

So option B is to drop down a notch or two in buckshot size. BPI offers a couple versions of #0 buckshot that has diameter of .315" that will stack in 3's inside a shot cup. 3 layers of 3 of those weigh about 1 oz, will fit into nearly all plastic wads intended for 1 1/8 oz target loads, and can be loaded for velocities from 1,100 to 1,400 fps.

#1 buckshot would do the same but would be small in size, waste space, be lite in weight and probably need overshot cards and such to get stack height right to get a good crimp.

A Mec Jr. and components from BPI would be easy enough to crank out 3 ot 4 boxes an hour.

Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921064
08/05/23 08:02 AM
08/05/23 08:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
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Yellowbelly Offline OP
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Yellowbelly  Offline OP
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Louisiana
The data I found from bpi witch I don’t have in front of me is a #1 buck load I believe it was cheddite 2 3/4 hull mh-18 wad 15 pellets of #1 and long shot powder. I switched to number 1 last year it patterns a lot better than #00 for me. I am getting 90 percent of pellets on a 18” shoot and see at 50 yards with Winchester and it has enough power to break bones on impact. What I’m really trying to find is a bb load with the same components before I buys everything. Everything for the #1 buck load is available online

Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921081
08/05/23 08:22 AM
08/05/23 08:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,686
Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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It would be easy enough to drop BB's into any shot cup used for #1 buckshot. Would have to adjust powder charge to account for the weight difference (BB's payload would likely weigh more dumped into same shot cup), but otherwise, ought to work.

That many #1 buck pellets would likely be stacked in 3s, so 3 x 5 = 15. A heavy load.

If payload for same shot cup full of BB's starts getting off the charts heavy, you can cut back on payload weight to get to same weight as the buckshot load by dropping in space filler.......nitro cards, overshot cards or even something simple like cherrios or puffed rice. Or switch to a different wad.

Last edited by HayDay; 08/05/23 08:24 AM.

Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: HayDay] #7921117
08/05/23 08:57 AM
08/05/23 08:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Y
Yellowbelly Offline OP
trapper
Yellowbelly  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Louisiana
I was wondering what the nitro cards were for. So I can use the same recipe as long as the weight is the same correct

Last edited by Yellowbelly; 08/05/23 08:58 AM.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921156
08/05/23 09:44 AM
08/05/23 09:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
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Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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In my world, yes. I subscribe to theory an once weighs and ounce. But it #8 shot or 8 #00 buckshot pellets.....or whatever the count is.

If you do want or need to use nitro cards in 12 gauge wads to fill space, they need to be 20 gauge nitro cards. Those will sit flat in bottom of the shot cup, assuming wad has a flat bottom. If not, they will sit flat on top of shot payload, but still inside the wads' plastic shot cup.

Lastly, when working with large shot, forget about using the loader's shot bars and such. Those are sized and calibrated for small target shot.....like #8, etc. You will need to hand count the large shot pellets.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921163
08/05/23 10:01 AM
08/05/23 10:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,810
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T-Rex Offline
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Originally Posted by Yellowbelly
I was wondering what the nitro cards were for. So I can use the same recipe as long as the weight is the same correct

Your question scares me a bit.

The one thing to keep in mind is NEVER MAKE ANY SUBSTITUTIONS TO A PUBLISHED RECIPE! With a bit of experience, you will be able to make some slight modifications, but for now stick with the recipes.

I think you need to go back to your original question and find a good manual first. Mine are pretty old so I really can't recommend a particular one. Make sure whichever one you get has not only the list of recipes, but also a tutorial section that explains the details of the functions of all components and how they go together. The Advantages Manual that BPI sells is excellent. It's only drawback is that most, if not all the recipes call for BPI wads. Other manuals offer more common wad options.

The Cheddites can be purchaed pre-primed, so you are good to go. Primers vary a bit in size, and a lot in power. Know what you are doing when you go to reload.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921172
08/05/23 10:14 AM
08/05/23 10:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,686
Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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Only BPI manual I have is their slugs manual. As noted, also leans heavy on their products, but even with that, some of their loads were downright scary. Like 4 or 5 grains over the max load for same powder under same payload in a target load. The extra they added was nearly double the start / max range for a target load. It would indeed rev up the velocity, but I wouldn't want to be standing behind it when it goes off.

Hopefully OP also has an accurate scale. You can't reload anything without one of those.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: T-Rex] #7921210
08/05/23 12:02 PM
08/05/23 12:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Y
Yellowbelly Offline OP
trapper
Yellowbelly  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Originally Posted by T-Rex
Originally Posted by Yellowbelly
I was wondering what the nitro cards were for. So I can use the same recipe as long as the weight is the same correct

Your question scares me a bit.

The one thing to keep in mind is NEVER MAKE ANY SUBSTITUTIONS TO A PUBLISHED RECIPE! With a bit of experience, you will be able to make some slight modifications, but for now stick with the recipes.

I think you need to go back to your original question and find a good manual first. Mine are pretty old so I really can't recommend a particular one. Make sure whichever one you get has not only the list of recipes, but also a tutorial section that explains the details of the functions of all components and how they go together. The Advantages Manual that BPI sells is excellent. It's only drawback is that most, if not all the recipes call for BPI wads. Other manuals offer more common wad options.

The Cheddites can be purchaed pre-primed, so you are good to go. Primers vary a bit in size, and a lot in power. Know what you are doing when you go to reload.


A Manuel and recipe from that will only be used for now. I don’t want to blow anything up and yes a scale is the one thing that I will not be worried about the budget on. Any suggestions on a accurate scale

Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921288
08/05/23 02:09 PM
08/05/23 02:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 118
Ky
S
squirrelslayer Offline
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Ky
I would look at the cheddite manual. Both of these manuals are lacking in information on for what you're look for.

PXL_20230805_180151071.jpgPXL_20230805_180428127.jpg
Last edited by squirrelslayer; 08/05/23 02:11 PM.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921290
08/05/23 02:11 PM
08/05/23 02:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,539
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Posco  Offline
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RCBS M500 scale. It's a good, accurate scale.

Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Posco] #7921320
08/05/23 03:21 PM
08/05/23 03:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Y
Yellowbelly Offline OP
trapper
Yellowbelly  Offline OP
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Y

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Originally Posted by squirrelslayer
I would look at the cheddite manual. Both of these manuals are lacking in information on for what you're look for.

Thanks I figured it would be between the chedite and coyote I guess I’ll give the cheddite manual a try
Originally Posted by Posco
RCBS M500 scale. It's a good, accurate scale.

Thank you

Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921407
08/05/23 06:11 PM
08/05/23 06:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,810
WI
T-Rex Offline
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T-Rex  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,810
WI
This from Ballistic Products "Load of the Week" online.

Load#160519-8106 (EXPRESS BUCKSHOT)

HULL: CHEDDITE 12ga 2.75”

PRIMER: CH209

PROPELLANT: (ALLIANT) PROREACH 34.0 gr.

WAD: CLBC (Mica dust wad please.) Two long slits plus 18FW20 wad in base.

SHOT: Lead Buckshot #2 stacked in Rows of 3, 5 rows for a total of 15 pellets. (Approx. 425 grains.)

CRIMP: FOLD

RESULTS: PSI 10000 FPS 1565

Yeah, it's buckshot, .27" as opposed to the .18" BB you mentioned. You might not be able to use it but wanted to show something to put things somewhat into perspective.
I would call BPI, reference the load number, and ask if you could substitute the wad/spacer/shot with something containing BB. If so, get it in writing with your order.

I have an idea of what I would try, but, ain't no way I would suggest it at your stage of loading experience.


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921426
08/05/23 06:45 PM
08/05/23 06:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,810
WI
T-Rex Offline
trapper
T-Rex  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
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FYI, they ain't no stranger to requests like this.

I was just in there a few months ago looking for advice loading a pepperball in a 12 ga hull. I walked out with about a $20 solution


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921431
08/05/23 06:52 PM
08/05/23 06:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,594
West Tennessee
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doublesettrigger Offline
trapper
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https://www.youtube.com/@BubbaRountree/videos

This man's name is Wade Rush and he knows his stuff. Get the manuals, study them and then watch Wade.
Do NOT substitute in recipes in shotgun loading. DON'T DO IT.

Rickey

Last edited by doublesettrigger; 08/05/23 06:55 PM.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921435
08/05/23 06:57 PM
08/05/23 06:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 30,922
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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williamsburg ks
I like my RCBS balance beam scale. Set it to 0 and drop a quarter inch square piece of paper in the pan it moves off 0


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921444
08/05/23 07:23 PM
08/05/23 07:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,810
WI
T-Rex Offline
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Originally Posted by Yellowbelly

...I believe and the lead bb is what I’m really after can’t seem to find it in 2 3/4 inch. The loads will be used for hogs. And before anyone says lead bb isn’t big enough for hogs it is the law on our wma that you can’t use buckshot out of deer season. The rest of the time lead bb or steel t is the biggest you can use. I have dropped hogs with lead bb it is only used at close range in thickets. We have been using the Winchester varmit x coyote loads
How many hogs do you shoot? What is the cost of a couple boxes, as opposed to all your new equipmnent, components, and reference materials? Did you consider slugs, as opposed to that point blank BB stuff?


Man who mistake shillelagh for fairy wand; see pixie dust, also.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: doublesettrigger] #7921479
08/05/23 08:29 PM
08/05/23 08:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Y
Yellowbelly Offline OP
trapper
Yellowbelly  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Louisiana
Originally Posted by doublesettrigger
https://www.youtube.com/@BubbaRountree/videos

This man's name is Wade Rush and he knows his stuff. Get the manuals, study them and then watch Wade.
Do NOT substitute in recipes in shotgun loading. DON'T DO IT.

Rickey

I have been watching his videos for a while he has great info and I'm only sticking to manuels im not gonna go from never reloading to making my own recipes

Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: T-Rex] #7921502
08/05/23 08:41 PM
08/05/23 08:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 161
Louisiana
Y
Yellowbelly Offline OP
trapper
Yellowbelly  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Louisiana
Originally Posted by T-Rex
Originally Posted by Yellowbelly

...I believe and the lead bb is what I’m really after can’t seem to find it in 2 3/4 inch. The loads will be used for hogs. And before anyone says lead bb isn’t big enough for hogs it is the law on our wma that you can’t use buckshot out of deer season. The rest of the time lead bb or steel t is the biggest you can use. I have dropped hogs with lead bb it is only used at close range in thickets. We have been using the Winchester varmit x coyote loads
How many hogs do you shoot? What is the cost of a couple boxes, as opposed to all your new equipmnent, components, and reference materials? Did you consider slugs, as opposed to that point blank BB stuff?


So in lousiana on public land you can kill hogs but only when another season is open so for us it's rabbit from the end of October to the end of February. Lead bb is the largest size shot legal for rabbit so that's the reason for the lead bb when deer season opens we use the buckshot. I stay away from slugs because all but one of my hogs have been at running and I'm not comfortable shooting slugs at running animal.last season I went thru about 30 round of Winchester varmit x 3" lead bb and about 35-40 rounds of #1 buck the varmit x is $30 for ten rounds the #1 is about $10 for five rounds so about $170. I do like to pattern and practice so a fair amount was on the bench I killed six and missed a few more. The biggest factors in wanting to reload are the fact that I use a gun that can only shoot 2 3/4 but is extremely accurate out to 50 yards and I cannot find a commercial 2 3/4 lead bb load and this year even finding #1 is starting to become a problem. I understand like trapping I will probably spend a little more but I would rather that than have to pattern a new size and brand of ammo because it's all that the store has plus if the gun doesn't like it it is wasted money. Thanks for the load data I'm planning on calling on Monday to try and get a recipe

Last edited by Yellowbelly; 08/05/23 08:44 PM.
Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921861
08/06/23 10:41 AM
08/06/23 10:41 AM
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Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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Was thinking about this thread in middle of the night........troubled by the 15 pellet count of #1 buckshot. So on a hunch, went to BPI and looked up #1 buckshot. For all their super buck.....they publish a helpful table:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Buck-Lead-1-8-lb_jar-300/productinfo/SBK01/

What you find is a 1 oz payload of this shot contains 10.6 pellets. So if you do the math, a 15 count payload would weigh 1.4+ oz. That is getting very close to a 1 1/2 oz payload in a 2 3/4" shell? In my book, that is getting deep into heavy magnum plus rounds and not something any of us has any business messing with reloading our own.

On the other hand, a 12 count load is closer to 1 1/8 oz. Assume those are stacked 3 x 4 = 12. With right wads and powders, that is very much doable, with easy to obtain, off the shelf components. There are nearly endless lists of published loads for 1 1/8 oz payloads. Nothing exotic or crazy to worry about. And most likely, exact same components could be used to load a 1 1/4 oz payload of BB's.

FWIW.

Last edited by HayDay; 08/06/23 10:48 AM.

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Re: Shotgun reloading [Re: Yellowbelly] #7921869
08/06/23 10:58 AM
08/06/23 10:58 AM
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Posts: 12,744
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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SW Georgia
What’s crazy is back in the day my and my best friends parents went in together and bought us 12 year old boys and shotgun shell reloader and all necessary parts. We loaded everything from #8 shot to BB’s you’d buy at the corner store. We loaded rock salt and even metal shavings. We tried glass marbles and steel ball bearings.
All this without written instructions or supervision.

Our WMA’s and “hog” killing are the same. Whatever legal gauge/caliber/ammo is legal for the season that’s in, is what hogs can be shot with. The work during small game season is the fact that bobcat season is in and center fired rifles can be used for bobcats. So, we are always bobcat hunting, and the pesky hogs keep getting in our way. About the only time it’s an issue is during turkey season, but even the smallest size TSS will stone a hog at 40yds.

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