we have our fur-bear workshop coming up, and on the agenda is posting sign that we have traps out on roadway and trail. Has anyone in your state's had this come up and if you did what did you do to defend not having to do this,

That’s akin to putting a sign on every house front door saying “ Money in top drawer in back bedroom”.

I would have to agree. This proposal came about because someone had a dog caught in two different legally set traps two years ago. He wants trappers to put signs up if you have traps within 25 feet of a road. We need help in how to stop this before it actually gains traction. Here’s exactly how the person is trying to justify signage.
“
First, thank you to the MDNR and the Furtakers for this opportunity to share our ideas and experiences with you. Over the last two years, we have discussed this with multiple members of the National Resources Commission, Michigan DNR personnel, and a couple of prominent members of Michigan trappers organizations. These discussions have led us to believe that it is possible to work together to create new tools to protect adults, children, and leashed pets, without restricting the activities of trappers.

We have had two encounters with legally set traps while walking our dogs on leash along roads and two-tracks through state land near our home, which we do almost every day. The first was a very close call with a conibear trap by a creek near a county road; we were able to pull her back at the last second, but know that if we’d seen it a moment later she might have died. The second time she was caught in a leg hold trap that was set within three feet of a two-track we often walk; she made a full recovery but it was an agonizing experience, we were both injured while trying to free her, and we had the financial burden of an urgent vet visit. While both traps were perfectly legal, we also were following leash laws, using well-traveled trails, and otherwise doing everything that should make it possible to enjoy a walk on public lands without it turning into a traumatic incident.

In the interest of public safety, we propose the following requirement: If a trap of any kind is set within 25 feet of a public road, drive, or trail, a warning sign must be posted in a highly visible place along the trail in both directions, 100-150 feet before the trail’s nearest point to the trap (or first trap, if multiple traps are set close together).

These signs should be designed for maximum visibility and clarity. Example: an 8”x10” reusable sign with a red outline and red lettering reading “Warning: Traps Set Ahead”, and smaller print including clarification that there is no required set-back for traps from the trail. A hiker seeing this sign would be able to turn around or, if they choose to proceed, exercise extreme caution.

We have looked into the cost of producing signs and it seems quite reasonable; we suggest that the state should produce and distribute them for free.

It may be necessary to come up with a different warning system for those furtakers who set a large number of traps across a wide area. Online mapping technology may be a useful tool in that situation.

One concern we are sensitive to is whether the signs will put traps at increased risk of being stolen or tampered with. We do not believe so for the following reasons:
1. Because the signs do not need to be right by the trap, a person would still have to search very hard to actually find the trap.
2. People who are concerned about traps are more likely to simply avoid the area, or at least having been suitably warned, will not be shocked when they come upon a trap and are less likely to react rashly.
3. By doing their job of preventing encounters with traps, the signs would also protect those traps from being sprung through accidental contact.

Trappers who are particularly concerned could also simply set the traps farther from a trail, avoiding the need for signage. Our belief is that by working actively to promote greater public safety on public lands, furtakers may get greater respect and therefore experience less theft and interference.

In many rural areas, state lands which allow hunting and trapping are for many people the best (or only proximate) places to hike; even in parts of the state where there are other options, the general public should still be able to enjoy these state lands safely. Even those who are aware that trapping is allowed on these lands are limited in their ability to mitigate their own risks, especially if hiking with dogs or children, without knowing when and where there are actually traps set.

Michigan already has some laws meant to mitigate the severity of certain trap encounters, but we hope you’ll agree it is never acceptable for humans or pets to become trapping victims. The ultimate goal should be prevention.”

yes, we [trappers] are against it, but we need to come up with, good reason why?

Lol

Working almost exclusively in town I fully understand the issue. While it would be nice to think that simple signage would alleviate all possible negative interactions human nature says otherwise.

What is the almost instinctual reaction to a wet paint sign?

And that doesn't even take into consideration the subset of the population that holds criminal or malicious intent.

If signage is a must I've found that a generic closure of the area with no trespass without explanation as to why is much better than offering a reason for exploration or tampering.

Does the sign say “steal me”? So each hunter will need to put up a sign “ I’m hunting over here” it makes about the same sense. I’d add a component to the trapper Ed class on avoiding issues not enough integrity in the world for this to come out positive.


I’d put up a M44 sign to avoid problems that would get the job done more efficiently.

What do the folks that are required to use them have to say about them? I’d start there.

We have a law here that states traps can’t be set on paths or trails commonly used by humans or domestic animals. I’ve had a hard time coming to the acceptance of the fact that the new trap setters don’t always possess common sense. To a kid now, a 220 bucket a hundred feet behind a subdivision is a long line. Personally, I would never set a trap along a public daily walking trail with people and dogs, especially a 220. Even if legal. I’m afraid it’s going to catch up to us through incidents of not very knowledgeable people setting traps affect the rest of us greatly just due to the publicity factor. It’s happened in several states. Sometimes in order to cut off future problems I believe it’s better to, for lack of a better word, concede sometimes and work with wildlife agencies to show we realize the issues and want to work with them. Now though sometimes any show of concession, like on guns, they just go to the next thing on the list.
We had an issue here with a public wildlife management area, a coon feeder ( yes they do that here) the houndsmen we’re using to “ concentrate” their dog training, a trapper, a 220 bucket and a group of coon hunters and dogs. The problem with public ground is that there’s no landowner go between for the users. We actually put forward the offer of no 220’s on public wildlife management areas. We can still use them on private property, otter crossovers, groundhog dens and such.Sounds like you are having a similar issue.
Now, I stand firm on the position that a trapper that has permission on private property is absolutely blameless if the catch a domestic that has no permission (night hunter) that goes on the property and gets caught. Same goes with free roaming deer chasers.
You might want to look at a tweak of wording that is completely within the trappers spectrum of understanding and leave the public out of it. I certainly would oppose telling everyone where my traps were. All the problems or things that come up there’s a tendency to jump straight to the trapper being in the wrong. This is certainly not the case.

My Beagle Club did a study on "no trespassing" signage and came to the conclusion that Dogs can't read, and have NO idea what a fence is.

The "adults and children" is the part that gets me and tells me right off the guy is full of crap:

protect adults, children, and leashed pets,

Most ardent antis refuse, flat out, to leash their dogs too so I'm skeptical, to say the least, about the leashed part as well.

The issue is dogs and traps no matter how many times they lie.

On Public lands here in Idaho I have seen warning signs on posts along two track roads that traps are set for animal control and it is illegal to disturb the traps. But then again, this is the West

It's the law here and I hate it.

Keep setting near public access roads and trails and your going to lose your right to trap In those areas.

It’s getting more difficult these days to rabbit, coon or bear hunt and not trespass. Lots of fences, signage going up and more and more people with feeders out for deer and turkey that don’t want a pack of dogs running through their property. Trappers and hunters in Kentucky are required by law to have permission to enter private property even to retrieve game or packs of dogs. I’ve seen coon hunters here turn dogs out in someone’s yard they have permission to park and let the dogs go all over neighboring properties saying dogs can’t read. Same with rabbit hunters and railroads. The railroads are really bearing down on rabbit hunters here. Years ago everyone hunted the railroads. Things have changed a lot.

Agreed, out of sight out of mind. But what about dp's, cages, submerged, elevated, enclosed, and any other dog safe method?

Those sets would work.
But would a law have to be set In place to prohibit sets other then the ones mentioned?
You catch the wrong persons dog and you may lose that type of trap. That's what happened here In WI with the 220.

Signs are just going to give anti's and Johnny Sneakum a starting point to find your traps. They may not find them all but will certainly find catch circles and live/dead animals.

True Brian, especially a live animal within 25' of a road or trail. Sign or no sign.

"within 25 feet of a public road, drive, or trail,"

They should know, without signs, that if it is trapping season there is a chance of being traps in areas open to legally trap.