I fully agree with all therein. Now what?

Bout right, DNR heirarchy

Are you going to post the entire article of just that one piece?

Thanks…great input. I don’t hunt that area or even been to that State yet, but it sounds like y’all’s DNR gave y’all the middle finger.

I will say this, for the most part, ours listens to what the masses want and do their best to make it happen.

Always opened 1st Saturday in Oct. it was hot, now Sept. 24th. Not sure why, move it up again we could shoot them in the nest. Mississippi flyway has been over for years compared to the 60s and 70s. Trapping sucks also.

Thanks for posting this Muskrat! I will see what I can do about posting a clean copy of my comment.

As you can see, I have been at this for a long time. To be honest I had thought about saying the heck with it and not even providing a comment. Wonderful Wife did up a great comment that I believe will be in the next edition of all goes well.

We've been trying to back out of a lot of conservation involvement as there have been times it has been nearly full-time with some issues like the CCP on the Refuge, and the Stewardship battle. For some reason this batch of regulations and the WDNR's lack of regard for true public input ticked us both off enough that we decided to come out swinging like the old days.

This will not be the last of this I can virtually guarantee. I am very sure there are individuals and groups out there that will throw out their faux indignation that we dare to expose how lousy our WDNR is compared the that of a decade or so ago. They will use their carefully crafted online survey results to try to discredit us and prove the WDNR is doing a fine job...at what, I don't know.

Bring it.

Moosetrot

To Whom It May Concern:

Please accept this as my comment on the 2023 Migratory Seasons. These will be quite brief, and concentrated on the Canada Goose Season on the Mississippi River as I have finally come to see the current public input process as a sham and an exercise in futility. I am now more than simply disappointed in staff and leadership of the WDNR as they have taken the Leopold model of management, including true public involvement, and in my opinion have thrown it to the wayside.

I have been involved in setting the Migratory Bird seasons in Wisconsin for about 40 years, and have seen the process erode to the point that it is quite apparent that the WDNR is perfectly willing to ignore the public opinion, even that of the Conservation Congress Migratory Committee, the legislatively-recognized advisory group to the NRB as they perform their function of overseeing the WDNR. What has always been a very active annual exercise in public involvement and engagement in setting the seasons, will soon be a 5-year process to cater to the wishes and workload of the WDNR staff instead of the wishes and input of the public. Soon we will be just like other states instead of having a unique model of conservation that has existed for nearly 100 years. To those of us that subscribe to the Leopold form of management, this is a very sad state of affairs. It is quite apparent that this is the path the WDNR has chosen.

I was a very active proponent and played a large role in achieving permission from the USFWS to have 3 Zones with splits for duck seasons. This happened because shortened seasons in the 80's had disastrous effects on waterfowlers on the Mississippi. Being lumped in with the south Zone and the conditions across the state was a catalyst for an angry season-setting process, but also for the public on the Mississippi to actively pursue a 3rd Zone with splits. It took nearly 20 years for the public on the Mississippi River to achieve their goal of having a Zone to allow them to utilize the resource within the unique conditions of the Mississippi River.

The elimination of the Mississippi River Zone for ducks, and advent of the Lake Michigan Zone was a bitter enough pill for some of us to swallow, as we were concerned that the use days on Michigan would not be anything near what they are here on the River. We were assured by WDNR staff that they would be monitoring numbers to justify the creation of such a Zone as we had to provide annual data to prove the the Mississippi Zone was a viable and valid use of it as the 3rd Zone. I have been told by WDNR staff the no such data exists for the Lake Michigan Zone. So much for trust in the staff of the WDNR. We were also told at the Conservation Congress Migratory Committee meeting as well as the LaCrosse Public Hearing that in the event of shortened (30 or 45 day) seasons, the Mississippi Zone would be brought back into play. There is no mention of that in the current plan.

The Mississippi River Goose Zone has been in place for several decades, even having its own quota in the past. It must be noted that the Mississippi River Goose Zone has always been held separate from the Duck seasons and was created through input from hunters wishing to utilize the resource in concert with the unique conditions on the River. The Mississippi River Goose Zone has not been dependent upon the Duck Zone framework and has always been considered separate.

Before I make my comments on the Canada Goose season, I invite you to read an email sent to members of the Conservation Congress Migratory Committee by Taylor Finger in preparation for a meeting in which the committee would weigh in and vote as representatives of the public. Not only was the statewide vote separated by what is most likely a non-significant number of votes, the vote by folks who actually know and utilize the River resource was clearly decisive and reflective of votes on this topic for decades. And yet, the public input was clearly ignored as well.

Please find attached the public input summary that will be covered in tonight’s meeting. There are a few points to highlight.

Early Teal season averaged about 12 days (9 days proposed)
2024 South Zone season showed more interest for an Oct. 5 opener versus a September 28 opener (proposed)
Miss River Canada goose opener
Statewide 52% supported September 16th (237 comments) versus 48% supporting opening with duck season (215 comments)
Miss. River goose hunters (only 25 total comments, 17 comments from Lacrosse public hearing)
88% open with duck season (22 comments, 17 of which from lacrosse hearing)
12% - September 16th (3 comments)
54% supported a North Canada goose season Holiday Hunt Split versus 46% opposing one

Thank you again for the invite to provide these results and I look forward to the discussion this evening. DNR leadership will be making final determinations on what will be forwarded to the Natural Resources Board later this week, so tonight’s meeting will be just about discussing the WCC final stances on the season proposals.
Best,

Taylor

It is very apparent that the WDNR has chosen to go against the wishes of the public who actually hunt the Mississippi. Instead they have chosen to lump the Mississippi River Goose Zone with the South Zone. In doing so the WDNR is opening the Canada Goose Season with the rest of the South Zone instead of concurrent with the duck season as hunters have supported for many decades. This is against the wishes of the public as shown in the survey and is also against a long-standing tradition of Canada Goose seasons on the River.

An even sillier move, which I don't recall was ever put forth to the public, is including the Mississippi River Zone with the rest of the South Zone in the Holiday Hunt for Geese. Instead of the Canada Goose season continuing on the River after the closure of duck season, it will now be closed until December 16-January 2. By December 16, ice-up is virtually guaranteed on the River, so except for hunting in probable hazardous conditions, the WDNR has effectively eliminated opportunities for those who enjoyed the hunt that time of the season and have supported it through all these decades. In the rest of the South Zone there are field hunting opportunities that simply do not exist on the Mississippi River except in very small, generally private lands. We hunt water. To lump us in with the South Zone for the Holiday Hunt makes it clear the WDNR decision-makers have no idea what they are doing.

In closing I want to go on record in vehement opposition to the current Canada Goose Season on the Mississippi River. To make such changes in opposition to the public input has not been the Wisconsin way. If these changes, including the movement to a 5-year season setting process are being done to make things easier on staff, you should be ashamed that you are willing to destroy the public trust in the annual process and eliminate public engagement. If it is being done to simplify regulations, that is quite laughable when one takes a look at the fishing and/or other hunting regulations.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment, however I truly believe it is an exercise in futility.

Ray Heidel

W8043 Co. Rd. ZN

Onalaska, WI 54650

Keep fighting for what you believe in Ray! Any chance you can post the full report of the survey?

Personally, with long seasons, we waste way too much time/resources setting season framework IMO. Money/time has to come out from somewhere. I get why it becomes a concern when we shorten season. Until then, I think we can waste time on better things.

That said, do we have input numbers from folks wanting the Lake Michigan program like we have for Mississippi zone? The fact that you had more folks in a meeting than they were able to collect in a survey should say something about their ability to correctly sample the Mississippi area. 17 of the 25 came from the meeting, right?

I remember when the local club here brought in Taylor to give his talk on setting season framework. It was standing room only with 60+ hunters in attendance. We had field hunters wanting one thing and lake hunters wanting another. Die hards wanted something different than the new guys. Guides added another different variable. I remember thinking I am glad I don't have to make the call on this one.

WiMarshRat-

You tend to enjoy long-winded debates disguised as conversations where you continuously and chronically profess the wonderfulness of online surveys. The efficiency of the WDNR, and generally that they and their ilk are the best thing since sliced bread and that the public really ought to see these online surveys, including the Spring Hearings in their online format, should be gospel to be blindly extolled and followed by the Wisconsin public. It is established that I, and many others do not see it that way. I am not going to engage in such a "conversation" on here.

The fact is that we are now stuck into a 5-year process rather than the annual we have had since I got involved in all this. Major changes will not be made annually anymore, If you watch the regulation process at all it is clear the WDNR is now seeking input for shortened seasons. Why? Are they doing it just for the fun of it? I think not.

This five-year process will reduce the annual engagement of waterfowl hunters at all levels of dedication and experience. When adjustments for 30 and 45 day seasons are necessary we will be stuck in some part of a 5-year process rather than adjusting on an annual basis. The ones that will be hurt the most by this are the River hunters, as we were hurt back in the 80's. Some currently hunting, and filling out their online surveys, were not even born when we River hunters were fighting a long and good fight. Somehow I don't think the annual season setting process is, as you said.... "wasting time on better things"

'Nuff said. Please don't waste your time and plastic on your keyboard trying to bait me into a debate. I made my comment, stand by every word of it, and am going to be a pain in the WDNR's arse every chance I get as long as they continue on the path they are on.

Moosetrot

Looks like you ruffled a few feathers. I see Mark Kakatsch decided to write a letter to the editor on the same topics.

Good Morning Everyone,



I wanted to reach out and let you all know that the Natural Resources Board today approved the Migratory Bird Permanent Rule. This approval reconfirms the season frameworks that were approved by the NRB at the April board meeting. In addition this included the 30, 45 and 60 day season frameworks in permanent rule. Our intention is to now retain this permanent rule including through 2025 and review how setting seasons for multiple years worked. If everything worked fine we would sync our rule process with the 5 year federal zone setting process. We have incorporated into this rule that if the bag limits or season lengths change the Secretary of the DNR would have the authority to adjust the season frameworks without having to go through the emergency rule process, however there will be a public input opportunity if/when this occurs. If we see that there is a requirement to be more restrictive due to biological concerns we could at that time hold an emergency rule to be more restrictive than what the USFWS allows.



I appreciate all the work from the folks on this committee as well as the comments that were submitted both for and in opposition. There is clearly some passionate conservationist on this committee and I want to recognize that this has been a process but I truly believe will benefit hunters as well as the migratory program. If anyone has any questions or comments please let me know.



Thanks again to all of you and your hard work for helping to get this across the finish line.


Taylor

M0oosetrot