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From the Kiwi left #7984737
11/01/23 06:16 PM
11/01/23 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
Failing the “Leftist” litmus test
By Chris Trotter - November 1, 2023

Chris Trotter is New Zealand’s leading leftwing political commentator, with 30 years of experience writing professionally about New Zealand politics. He now writes regularly for the Democracy Project, producing his column “From the Left”.


LIKE THE WAR in Ukraine, the war in Gaza is serving as a remarkable litmus test for the Left. It is testing its moral compass, its understanding of international law, its grasp of geopolitical realities and, not least, its awareness of what the PR mavens call “the optics”. A substantial portion, even, perhaps, a majority, of the Left is failing all of these tests – badly. That this should be the case points to what would appear to be a dangerous cognitive weakness in contemporary progressivism – and to a West under siege.

The moral and geopolitical confusion over the Russo-Ukrainian War is more readily understood than Israel’s war against Hamas. For the so-called “Tankies”, abandoning the cherished image of the Russian people, Nazism’s destroyers, as the world’s saviours, was an emotional wrench. Rejecting the argument that the Russian Federation’s illegal invasion of Ukraine was a justifiable response to US and Nato provocation proved equally difficult. None of these considerations excused the Tankies’ defence of Russian aggression, but one could at least see where it was coming from.


That is certainly not the case with respect to the devastating pogrom unleashed upon the Jewish inhabitants of Southern Israel by the Jihadist terrorist organisation, Hamas. To encounter its historical equal, it is necessary to travel back in time to the genocidal pogroms set in motion by the antisemitic citizens of the Baltic states in anticipation of the Nazi einsatzgruppen’s arrival in 1941. Here, too, one encounters the same unsparing cruelty, the same savage delight in rape, torture and murder, that characterised the Hamas pogrom of 7 October 2023.

As was the case in 1941, it is quite impossible to look upon the atrocities of 7/10/23 as anything other than a deliberate turning away from all civilised conduct. Unless, that is, one has already been convinced that against the Jews/Israelis any and all crimes are permitted – and justified.

That this was the belief of the Nazis is well-documented. That a burning desire to rid the world of the “Zionist Entity” is equally evident in every act of Arab aggression towards the State of Israel since 1948. The important distinction being that, while Egypt, Syria and Jordan only wanted to drive the Jews into the sea, the Jihadists of Hamas are religiously committed to making sure that every last one of them drowns.

What is it then that permits those who self-identify as leftists to survey the horrors of 7 October 2023 and see only a glorious act of Palestinian resistance? How is it possible for those who cheered on Jacinda Ardern’s “politics of kindness” to absorb all the details of the rape, the torture, the killing – and not respond with fury and disgust?

One possible answer is that they have seen the images of Palestinians shot and killed for daring to oppose the Israeli occupation of Palestine. They have watched, aghast, as Israeli aircraft, Israeli artillery, have pounded the houses and apartment buildings of Gaza to rubble. Seen, also, the tiny victims of such bombardment, and heard the anguished cries of their mothers. “Lex Talionis!”, they cry. “An eye for an eye!”

But the moral vacuity of this position was as obvious to a Galilean rabbi back in 30AD, as it was to a Gujarat lawyer in 1920 who declared that “An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind”. A leftist who turns her face in fury and disgust from the IDF’s brutality on the West Bank, cannot, either logically or ethically, refrain from doing the same in the face of Hamas’ murderous fanaticism.

That Pro-Palestinian leftists cannot see the deeply cynical purpose behind Hamas’ attack is similarly baffling. Notwithstanding the facts of international law concerning the responsibility of all those exercising state (or state-like) authority to protect their citizens from harm, Hamas committed its atrocities in the certain knowledge that Israel – fulfilling its own legal duty to protect its citizens – would feel compelled to destroy those responsible for organising and committing them. That this would entail air and artillery strikes on Gaza was obvious to the whole world. But, Hamas did not shrink from Israeli retaliation, it welcomed it.

Why? Because it knew that if the IDF was coming after them, then it would also be coming after the apartment buildings, the office blocks, the schools and the hospitals from which it launches its rockets, and under which it locates its storehouses, fuel dumps, arsenals, factories and command centres. Does Hamas know that this is a blatant breach of the Geneva Conventions – a war crime? Of course it does. Doesn’t it care that its own people will be “collateral damage” when the Israeli missiles strike their targets? Not at all. A steadily rising civilian death-toll isn’t a bug in Hamas’ strategy, it’s a feature.

There was a time when, to be regarded as a serious leftist, one was obligated to inform oneself as well as possible about world affairs – especially the geopolitics of great power rivalry and its consequences. No longer. One can be a fervent supporter of the Palestinian cause without ever pausing to wonder from whom groups like Hamas and Hezbollah get their military supplies, their military training.

Today’s leftists do not know, or do not care, that it is the hand of the Islamic Republic of Iran that is moving these terrorist pieces on the Middle-East chessboard. The same Islamic Republic that murders women and girls for refusing to wear the hijab. The same Islamic Republic that is committed to the utter destruction of Israel – and is rapidly acquiring the nuclear capacity to do exactly that. Today’s leftists simply do not realise that, if this was the Lord of the Rings, they’d be on the side of Sauron – they’d be cheering on the orcs.


Don’t they care about the optics of all this? When Jewish students in New York have to barricade themselves in their university library, against Pro-Palestinian leftists, and all the antisemitic, misogynistic, homophobic and transphobic “allies” standing right there beside them, pounding on the door, trying to get in. Does it not occur to them that people looking at the video clip of that incident posted on X might be reminded of something? When a supposed “leftist” stands up in Auckland’s Aotea Square and urges the multitude waving their Palestinian flag to “Globalise the Intifada!” – i.e. Let’s have pogroms everywhere! – and is cheered to the echo. What does he suppose New Zealand’s Jewish community sees?

Not leftism, but fascism. And so does every other leftist who still understands the meaning of the word.


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984740
11/01/23 06:29 PM
11/01/23 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,251
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
Good read James.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984745
11/01/23 06:41 PM
11/01/23 06:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,492
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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central Haudenosaunee, the De...
"What does he suppose New Zealand’s Jewish community sees? Not leftism, but fascism. And so does every other leftist who still understands the meaning of the word."

therein lies your answer...VERY few American Leftists still understand what "fascism" really is. they've been indoctrinated by government schools, mainstream media and fakebook to believe that conservative ideals are 'fascist".

Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984851
11/01/23 09:29 PM
11/01/23 09:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
J
James Offline OP
"Minka"
James  Offline OP
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
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Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
I have to agree with this article. Very perceptive, an opinion from another country regarding Palestinian-supporting liberals.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984871
11/01/23 09:50 PM
11/01/23 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,657
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,657
Georgia
I'm sorry are you seeking a pat on the back, jimbo?

I don't understand why any of this is news to you. We've been saying it for decades now and you've been raising that nest of vipers.

No, you and your kind deserve a swift kick in the pants.


[Linked Image]
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984907
11/01/23 10:39 PM
11/01/23 10:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655
Central Texas
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Chancey Offline
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Chancey  Offline
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Central Texas
I call BS propaganda on that whole article. I bet the guy that wrote it claims a Jewish heritage, or at least his handlers or influencers do. I am not anti Israel, and certainly not antisemitic, but I am smart enough to know when those that are in power are trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

The whole situation is FUBAR, and it infuriates me when I see MSM, government officials, etc. pull the line. This whole situation is about money and resources. Iran has lots and lots and lots of oil, they sale 1 million barrels/day to China, whom we are in bed with. There are giant gas fields off the coast of Gaza that we want our hands on.

Both the Israelis and Palestinians have committed atrocities to each other over the years, and both of them are doing it now. Neither side is innocent, nor can claim a moral and ethical win. Neither side is living by the Golden Rule.

This stupid, uncalled for, ridiculous situation that is going on in Gaza is the result of three things.....Money, Power, and Resources by a class of people that think they rule the world; and unfortunately appear to rule our government.

In a nutshell, those folks in power, don't have the ability to see into the future; which tells me that they are probably not of the lineage of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, nor of the God they worshiped; even though many of them claim to be. But I ask you this, if these people in power are truly who they claim to be, then why don't they follow or vote, are take actions on the things that were written within the Bible if they really are of Jewish decent, then they should be following the Torah? Are they liars?

The reality is, that they are Baal and Molech worshiping scoundrels that don't follow the Torah, but rather the Talmud and, don't believe in the Golden Rule, and have completely taken over the monetary system in the west.

There, that's Chancey's conspiracy theory for 11/1/23.


Resident Conspiracy Theorist
Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984912
11/01/23 10:50 PM
11/01/23 10:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655
Central Texas
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Chancey Offline
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Chancey  Offline
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Oh, I forgot to mention.

They thought they could get mainstream support from all Americans with the BS Ukraine/Russia war propaganda they were spitting, but thank God, many Americans did not buy it. This was unfortunate for them because in order to keep the fake money and BS currency going they have to have more people and more resources and they need to take Russia and all its resources.

When America citizens said no on Ukraine, then almost immediately we have the atrocities in Israel on Oct 7. They knew full and well that most evangelicals would support Israel no matter what, no matter what the cost, and no matter what happens to the people on both sides. I find it so unbearably unfortunate that most evangelicals that attend Church every Sunday, never take the time to pick up their Bible and read what it actually says.

I think there are very very very good people in Israel and that it has a 100% right to exist. I think the Messianic Jews and good Rabbis over there are facing incredible hardship from current leadership. I think the leadership in both Israel and in the US is corrupt, Pagan, evil, despicable, and more than likely will fall to its enemies due to not turning from our wicked ways.


Resident Conspiracy Theorist
Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7984913
11/01/23 10:52 PM
11/01/23 10:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,655
Central Texas
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Chancey Offline
trapper
Chancey  Offline
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^^^Enoy! Posted by Trapperman's resident conspiracy theorist.


Resident Conspiracy Theorist
Accused Moron, Nazi, Low IQ, and Putin Fan Boy
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985023
11/02/23 07:07 AM
11/02/23 07:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,602
Port Jervis, NY
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beachcomber13 Offline
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beachcomber13  Offline
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Port Jervis, NY
I agree with you Chancey. Now we're all considered leftists if we don't buy the Israeli propaganda. I guess we're soon gonna see that 80% of the world is leftist.

Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985164
11/02/23 10:25 AM
11/02/23 10:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,207
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
I'm not cheering for Hamas or the Palestinians. However, I don't feel sorry for the Jews. If you're stupid enough to move into the Middle East where nobody wants you ( and they told you before you moved there, "We don't want you here!") there might be endless difficulties.


Who is John Galt?
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985218
11/02/23 11:33 AM
11/02/23 11:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,251
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
^Only problem with that is they have always been there (at some level). It's their place of origen just like the arabs.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: beaverpeeler] #7985227
11/02/23 11:52 AM
11/02/23 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,207
Armpit, ak
D
Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
^Only problem with that is they have always been there (at some level). It's their place of origen just like the arabs.


Is this some liberal gibberish? That is still a stupid reason to move to a craphole. Unless you want endless death and destruction?

Last edited by Dirt; 11/02/23 12:03 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: Dirt] #7985230
11/02/23 11:56 AM
11/02/23 11:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,220
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
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BernieB.  Offline
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Northern Minnesota
Originally Posted by Dirt
I'm not cheering for Hamas or the Palestinians. However, I don't feel sorry for the Jews. If you're stupid enough to move into the Middle East where nobody wants you ( and they told you before you moved there, "We don't want you here!") there might be endless difficulties.


You need to do a little research on the history of the area before you post this kind of opinion. This was the Jewish homeland for thousands of years.

Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: BernieB.] #7985232
11/02/23 11:59 AM
11/02/23 11:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,207
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Dirt  Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by BernieB.
Originally Posted by Dirt
I'm not cheering for Hamas or the Palestinians. However, I don't feel sorry for the Jews. If you're stupid enough to move into the Middle East where nobody wants you ( and they told you before you moved there, "We don't want you here!") there might be endless difficulties.


You need to do a little research on the history of the area before you post this kind of opinion. This was the Jewish homeland for thousands of years.


Who is John Galt?
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985254
11/02/23 12:45 PM
11/02/23 12:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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evangelicals will ALWAYS support Israel. even when they sink one of our ships. (liberty)

They are there. They have a right to defend their selves, They have plenty of money. I am against American lives and dollars going to any country that restricts private firearm ownership. If they want american munitions it ought to be cash up front.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985256
11/02/23 12:49 PM
11/02/23 12:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: beaverpeeler] #7985291
11/02/23 02:14 PM
11/02/23 02:14 PM
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Posts: 25,657
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
^Only problem with that is they have always been there (at some level). It's their place of origen just like the arabs.


Palestinians are not Arabs. Common "they all look alike" ignorance stereotyping.

Arabs come from Arabia, Egyptians from Egypt.

There is no Palestine and never has been. The word comes from the Roman's who renamed their province of after the Jews tried to take it back from them in AD 70.

The people residing on the land from time immemorial were the canaanites, then Israel. Following by migrations, many forced, of other peoples such as circassions, turks, bedouins, greeks, persians, babylonians, mongols, romans and roma, but it is and has always been the land of Israel.

Last edited by warrior; 11/02/23 02:47 PM.

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Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: danny clifton] #7985293
11/02/23 02:27 PM
11/02/23 02:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 11,298
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
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Maine, Aroostook

I've heard of the Liberty before. Nothing in this article proves it to be anything other than mistaken identity.

Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985299
11/02/23 02:38 PM
11/02/23 02:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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With an American flag flying? I don't buy it. Israel IMO did not want their communications intercepted.

Quote
Though the United States refused to intervene on behalf of its ally, it was nevertheless eavesdropping on Israeli military communications during war. There, according to Bamford, lies the rub: Over the course of Israel’s remarkable territorial acquisition and military victory, it allegedly committed a war crime by slaughtering Egyptian prisoners of war in the city of El Arish in the northern Sinai.


Allegedly? When things are covered up and hidden there is reason for it. if it was a case of mistaken identity The whole thing would not still be classified.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: From the Kiwi left [Re: James] #7985303
11/02/23 02:48 PM
11/02/23 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,207
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Arabs are people who speak Arabic and originally came from the Arabian peninsula.


Who is John Galt?
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