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Bee keepers #8019828
12/13/23 12:49 PM
12/13/23 12:49 PM
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E central Il
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Golf ball Offline OP
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E central Il
Do any of you folks that keep bees know why fall honey crystalizes ?

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019830
12/13/23 12:54 PM
12/13/23 12:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 281
Smithsburg, MD
J.C. Offline
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Great question let me ask my group.


To a person ignorant of nature, his country stroll is a walk through a gallery filled with wonderful works of art with their faces turned to the wall
Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019833
12/13/23 12:59 PM
12/13/23 12:59 PM
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E central Il
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Golf ball Offline OP
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E central Il
Thanks , I’m sure if theirs a way to avoid it the lady I bought this from would greatly appreciate it.

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019843
12/13/23 01:24 PM
12/13/23 01:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,855
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Put it in a pan of warm water for a few hours. Hot but not to hot. It will go back to nice and clear.

If you go to hot it can change the flavor I hear. Don't know never take it over about 150--160°

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019848
12/13/23 01:27 PM
12/13/23 01:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,361
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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The reason the crystals start to form is because the honey at this extremely low moisture level can't really hold it's own for long. The sugar content is so high compared to the liquid it's dissolved in that it will actually start to separate. - same reason spring honey crystalizes

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019852
12/13/23 01:29 PM
12/13/23 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,361
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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keep it in the sun or warmer room and it wont crystalize as bad

never directly heat honey in microwave - about always can sit it in a windowsill as long as its not too drafty

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019853
12/13/23 01:30 PM
12/13/23 01:30 PM
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E central Il
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Golf ball Offline OP
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So it’s likely environmental, as in we had a dry fall when the bees were putting up fall pollen?

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019864
12/13/23 01:47 PM
12/13/23 01:47 PM
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Wisconsin
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Wisconsin
Crystalization depends on where plants that nectar came from. Some crystalize right away and others long time


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Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019866
12/13/23 01:53 PM
12/13/23 01:53 PM
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gregh Offline
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Place the jar of honey in you oven and turn the light on. Leave it overnight and it will turn it back to honey by morning .

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019875
12/13/23 02:05 PM
12/13/23 02:05 PM
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Pa.
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Bigbrownie Offline
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The worst for crystallizing in my are is aster. Comes on after goldenrod, late September. Canola honey will go to sugar quickly also.

Different nectar sources have their own unique molecular structure. Some honeys crystallize very quickly, others very slowly.

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019885
12/13/23 02:11 PM
12/13/23 02:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
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E central Il
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E central Il
She thought these bees finished on golden rod and it crystalizes most years in the fall ,not just this year .
I’ve got it setting in the window ,if that works it’s a pretty easy solution.
Thanks all !

Last edited by Golf ball; 12/13/23 02:13 PM.
Re: Bee keepers [Re: TreedaBlackdog] #8019895
12/13/23 02:28 PM
12/13/23 02:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,539
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
The reason the crystals start to form is because the honey at this extremely low moisture level can't really hold it's own for long. The sugar content is so high compared to the liquid it's dissolved in that it will actually start to separate. - same reason spring honey crystalizes


Put another way honey is a supersaturated liquid. Holding more sugar in a liquid form than it can sustain. Once a crystal of sugar precipitates out a cascade of crystallization occurs.

But the degree and rapidity of crystallization is influenced by the ratio of the types of sugars present from the floral nectar sources. Honey contains mostly glucose and fructose sugars with dextrose and maltose also occurring. Honeys high in fructose are very slow to granulate if at all while honeys high in glucose are quick to granulate.

This has long been known to beekeepers and generally tree honeys are slow to granulate while forbs are quick to do so.

Most notably Tupelo honey is claimed to never granulate while Canola, and all brassicas, is known to granulate in the comb even before the bees can cap it off.

Spun or creamed honey is nothing more than granulated honey produced by the beekeeper under controlled conditions to produce a granulated honey with extremely small crystals to avoid the coarse gritty texture of naturally occurring crystallization. Look up the Dyce Method for Spun Honey.

For liquid honeys that have crystallized they can be reliquified with gentle heat. Gentle as in low enough to avoid caramelizing or burning the sugar, just warm enough to melt the crystals. Depending on the water content of the honey crystallization can promote fermentation if the sugar and water separate. Cured honey in a liquid state has a water content to low to support fermentation but separation can allow fermentation to occur.

Last edited by warrior; 12/13/23 02:36 PM.

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Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019896
12/13/23 02:29 PM
12/13/23 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,539
Georgia
warrior Offline
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Georgia
Originally Posted by Golf ball
She thought these bees finished on golden rod and it crystalizes most years in the fall ,not just this year .
I’ve got it setting in the window ,if that works it’s a pretty easy solution.
Thanks all !


Golden rod and asters are notorious for granulation.


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Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019898
12/13/23 02:30 PM
12/13/23 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,539
Georgia
warrior Offline
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Georgia
Probably need more heat than a window. I use a heating pad for five gallon buckets, a pad and insulated box.


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Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8019917
12/13/23 02:48 PM
12/13/23 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,361
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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B61-12 vicinity, MO
Guess it depends on the windows - have several setups to melt wax just with windows........can separate good wax from the slum gum stuff just with solar power.

Re: Bee keepers [Re: TreedaBlackdog] #8019925
12/13/23 03:00 PM
12/13/23 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 27,539
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
Guess it depends on the windows - have several setups to melt wax just with windows........can separate good wax from the slum gum stuff just with solar power.


That is true. Wasn't thinking of a solar wax melter and my windows stay shaded and cold.


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Re: Bee keepers [Re: warrior] #8019932
12/13/23 03:07 PM
12/13/23 03:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 6
Illinois
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Illinois
Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by TreedaBlackdog
The reason the crystals start to form is because the honey at this extremely low moisture level can't really hold it's own for long. The sugar content is so high compared to the liquid it's dissolved in that it will actually start to separate. - same reason spring honey crystalizes


Put another way honey is a supersaturated liquid. Holding more sugar in a liquid form than it can sustain. Once a crystal of sugar precipitates out a cascade of crystallization occurs.

But the degree and rapidity of crystallization is influenced by the ratio of the types of sugars present from the floral nectar sources. Honey contains mostly glucose and fructose sugars with dextrose and maltose also occurring. Honeys high in fructose are very slow to granulate if at all while honeys high in glucose are quick to granulate.

This has long been known to beekeepers and generally tree honeys are slow to granulate while forbs are quick to do so.

Most notably Tupelo honey is claimed to never granulate while Canola, and all brassicas, is known to granulate in the comb even before the bees can cap it off.

Spun or creamed honey is nothing more than granulated honey produced by the beekeeper under controlled conditions to produce a granulated honey with extremely small crystals to avoid the coarse gritty texture of naturally occurring crystallization. Look up the Dyce Method for Spun Honey.

For liquid honeys that have crystallized they can be reliquified with gentle heat. Gentle as in low enough to avoid caramelizing or burning the sugar, just warm enough to melt the crystals. Depending on the water content of the honey crystallization can promote fermentation if the sugar and water separate. Cured honey in a liquid state has a water content to low to support fermentation but separation can allow fermentation to occur.

Excellent response!

At one point many years ago I was pretty interested in becoming a beekeeper and learned as much as I could on the subject, your explanation of crystallization in honey is how I understand it.

Re: Bee keepers [Re: warrior] #8019942
12/13/23 03:40 PM
12/13/23 03:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,184
KY
ksp107 Offline
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KY
Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by Golf ball
She thought these bees finished on golden rod and it crystalizes most years in the fall ,not just this year .
I’ve got it setting in the window ,if that works it’s a pretty easy solution.
Thanks all !


Golden rod and asters are notorious for granulation.


Yes sir, exactly wat bees have here in the fall to forage on. Customers always ask me why fall honey crystallizes faster than the spring honey. You explained it perfectly in your detailed post.

Re: Bee keepers [Re: Golf ball] #8020206
12/13/23 09:35 PM
12/13/23 09:35 PM
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N.W.Ohio
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Honey should not be heated rapidly, over direct heat. Basically, the hotter you heat it, the more potential for reducing nutritional value. Excessive heat can have detrimental effects on the nutritional value of honey. Heating up to 37°C (98.6 F) causes loss of nearly 200 components, part of which are antibacterial. Heating up to 40°C (104 F) destroys invertase, an important enzyme. Heating up to 50°C (122 F) for more than 48 hrs. turns the honey into caramel (the most valuable honey sugars become analogous to sugar). Heating honey higher than 140 degrees F for more than 2 hours will cause rapid degradation. Heating honey higher than 160 for any time period will cause rapid degradation and caramelization. Generally any larger temperature fluctuation (10°C is ideal for preservation of ripe honey) causes decay.
-John Skinner, University of Tennessee

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