There ya have it.J.C. is Holier than thou.I knew he was one of them type.

I missed that comment. Went back and read his post to get context...

That says all I really need to know about J.C.

Physician heal thyself...

So what if most Southerners fighting in the CW didn't own slaves? Average Joe Farmer was sold a bill of goods by the Southern power elite, which did own slaves.

In the same way, Bush/Cheney sold the American people a bill of goods in getting our support for invading Iraq. Good young people answering the call and some were killed for nothing.

Jim

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

What do you specifically mean by "states rights"? What rights are you talking about? Don't fall back on code words.

I say "states' rights" in this context is a code word for the "right" to own slaves. Can you show me how I'm wrong?

Jim

No, it was the right to own slaves. You're absolutely right. But so many fought to support it because they were farsighted enough to know that it wouldn't stop there. If the federal government were allowed to disregard states' rights on THIS issue, they would be able to do so on any issue in the future. Which is exactly what has happened.

They picked poor facts for establishing a principle.

I don't think people who fought in that war on the Southern side were far-sighted at all. I think the powers-that-were tricked them into supporting the Southern cause.

Jim

Principle???

LOL, Lincoln suspended the law here in Maryland to prevent secession.
Must've been his " pre- crime" unit.
Butler imposed martiall law


"On September 17, 1861, the first day of the Maryland legislature's new session, fully one third of the members of the Maryland General Assembly were arrested, due to federal concerns that the Assembly "would aid the anticipated rebel invasion and would attempt to take the state out of the Union."



During this period in spring 1861, Baltimore Mayor Brown,[31] the city council, the police commissioner, and the entire Board of Police were arrested and imprisoned at Fort McHenry without charges.[3][32] One of those arrested was militia captain John Merryman, who was held without trial in defiance of a writ of habeas corpus on May 25, sparking the case of Ex parte Merryman, heard just 2 days later on May 27 and 28. In this case U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, and native Marylander, Roger B. Taney, acting as a federal circuit court judge, ruled that the arrest of Merryman was unconstitutional without Congressional authorization, which Lincoln could not then secure:

The President, under the Constitution and laws of the United States, cannot suspend the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, nor authorize any military officer to do so.[33]

The Merryman decision created a sensation, but its immediate impact was rather limited, as the president simply ignored the ruling.[34] Indeed, when Lincoln's dismissal of Chief Justice Taney's ruling was criticized in a September 1861 editorial by Baltimore newspaper editor Frank Key Howard (Francis Scott Key's grandson), Howard was himself arrested by order of Lincoln's Secretary of State Seward and held without trial. Howard described these events in his 1863 book Fourteen Months in American Bastiles, where he noted that he was imprisoned in Fort McHenry, the same fort where the Star Spangled Banner had been waving "o'er the land of the free" in his grandfather's song.[35] Two of the publishers selling his book were then arrested.[3] In all nine newspapers were shut down in Maryland by the federal government, and a dozen newspaper owners and editors like Howard were imprisoned without charges.[3]


James, as a lawyer, thoughts?

JC,
As a Marylander, SURELY you know our history.
Or, does two.wrongs make a right?


Held without trial?
160 years before Jan 6?

What's old is new again!
Tyranny!

No answer for all the black slave owners. I never get one whenever I ask about the fact that it was Africians that were capturing and selling the slaves to the slave dealers. That this country inherited slavery at our founding. It was here before we were a country.

Slavery was on its way out with mechanization. And would have been all but gone shortly. Many other countries had Slavery and continued to after we no longer imdid but som how the US is the bad guy.

Wanna guess what continent it still.exists on?
Yet no.one seems to.care....

WHY is that?

Most of the population.of Baltimore, Ireland was captured and shipped to Africa, as slaves, in 1631.

Bet you never learned that in school!

Where's THEIR reparations?

No one is arguing that slavery is right; it needed to end. Having said that, the founders of USA felt strongly about states rights and a limited federal government. I believe Amendment 10 makes that pretty clear. They also laid out exactly what the federal governments' duties were in article one section 8 I believe. After the civil war, the federal government took more and more control over the states.




Amendment X (1791)

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Some family history here. There were also some who were just simple farmers and just wanted to be left alone, but joined the Southern cause after being looted and burned out by Union troops. (Behavior fully condoned by "honest" Abe, by the way.)

You confuse me JC. As I understand what you said you have a problem with those who fought for the south because of what they were defending was wrong sort of the moral high ground. And yet you said you were a Catholic so the part that I can't understand is some one with such a high morale standard could support a religion that treated natives in south America like animals, took native children away from their families in Canada and caused their death, tortured people off an own for decades, and tries to hide their clergy who have molested children from punishment . Could you please explain that?

Deflection alert!

Jim

Erase history, that will make it better.

I haven't read everybody's contribution to this thread...but I think it stinks.

I didn't read all of this, but tearing down historical monuments is always a bad idea.

Address the history. Don't try to erase it.

You guys, James said he RESEARCHED this! Therefore there can be no other valid points of view, so just stop it!