Was watching instruction on him making his pipe dream set. The way he does the set is 100% opposite of all other using dirt covering. One of the biggest differences is not getting 100% coverage of pan screen and ground not flat in trap area. His sets are designed to be weather proof. They look fast to set but would like to know how hold up to freezing and frost heaving. Would hammering in mud tight to jaws for stabilizing trap cause traps not to function below freezing. If works could speed making sets.

The set works well and is super fast and easy to make after a couple made you’ll see. The hammering the sides in is just pinching the trap ever so much to stabilize it. Nice strong trap will blow out of the bed no issues in most conditions that even wax dirt can be shut down in. It’s not the answer to all but is definitely a good tip/tool to know and h e out on the line. If lots of deep freeze is expected a little salt goes a long ways!

Seems to shine as being very water resistant which tends to be in the more mild part of season at least here. Once weather starts shifting to cooler temps the sets ability to function depends on how wet soil is and how cold it’ll drop to. Here you can easily have ground frozen solid down past trap in just couple of days in those conditions It’ll need antifreeze then to operate. But when the weather is making that much of a shift to constant cold freezing you may find screen can still have some benefits but you’ll likely benefit much more using winter bedding techniques in combination with it.

If it works for our wet/hot season it should work for your freeze/thaw. Our clay when heated becomes cement, the same thing as your freeze. Traps fire.
The trap sits flush with the deck, not below it. The covering is nothing but grass or leaves. There’s very little contact with our clay. The whole concept or what I took as the concept was for it to be weather proof. The bed is deep to hold moisture. I have picked up sets on pull day with a bed full of water underneath the set, but the trap was still blended and functional.

That bed full of water will freeze into a solid block of ice with a trap in the middle of it here. I do hammer in trap beds at times here, but then I pour wax sand in them and make sure there is wax sand under everything (especially levers) and all the way around the outside of the jaws with nothing touching native dirt. I do hollow out under the trap, makes bedding solid much easier and faster.

You must not have read the deep part. If you have that much water, then no amount of waxed dirt is gonna help and your trap will be washed out anyways. When I say deep, I mean deep. Nothing but a void under that trap. After digging and before placing the trap I take my stake driver and pound a hole in the bottom to help with drainage.
This set takes me longer if it’s dry when placing them, but I only use it if I KNOW I’m going to have nothing but rain for a week or more. At least I know I’ll have some functioning sets.

What do you mean by deep? I usually go three or four inches, sometimes a little less when using waxed sand. But most of the natural soil I set in is clay and doesn't drain at all.

Deep is 8” or so. Think of a tornado. There is nothing below the trap but air. The levers are the only thing solid on the deck. At the bottom on the tornado I pound a hole as deep as I can to help with drainage.
My anchor is off to the side or front on the set with the leftover coiled in the hole beneath the trap itself.
Yes, it takes a little longer to put this set in, but it beats a washed out set or one that won’t fire after 2-3” of rain from one storm.
Generally during rainy season I’ll have a set like that and a regular flat set across from it. Like I said, I KNOW the Zagger set will fire no matter what. The other is iffy based on the amount of rain and drainage area.

Mark's set works great in the early part of the season but this time of year in Western NY, a regular trap bed, sides pounded in to stabilize the trap, generous portion of salt under and around the trap, fill with bone dry peat moss and top with waxed dirt. In the last 2 weeks we had copious amounts of rain, followed by 5" of snow that then melted followed by temps in the teens and my traps are still working and catching. The peat stayed bone dry through out. Salt and peat are cheap so I fling both around the whole set so there is not a concentrated smell in the trap bed itself.

Just watched video of Mark trapping in Illinois with snow on ground. He used table salt around jaws but went light.

I’m surprised about the salt. That seems to attract rabbits and deer down here.

You need to watch that video ,I found interesting. He was setting with snow on ground using his PVC pipe method. The other guy doing standard dirt hole sets said Mark was out producing him while they were working together.

I have used layered salt for years in my dug out bare trap bed to help stop the ground frosting from attaching to the jaws and levers. Then layered with peat as a protective barrier from the salt, bed my trap in the peat, then filled in the bedded trap with peat then waxed dirt to finish off the set to grade level.

Works well for me. You don't want it on top of the set that can cause some interest from deer and rabbits. We have lots of deer where I trap and rabbits at times. I have no more deer set offs than is typical. If I am working pastures with sheep or sections with cattle you can have issues with salt use.

Lots of rains and no draining puts most sets out of commission until things begin to dry out.

I have taken parts of his set and use it to make my own version that works well for me.

You should try different methods of bedding traps and learn from it.
Use different lure holders rocks, bones, wood, holes, etc.
For tuff winter trapping conditions I use Waxed sand or dirt or both like Bearcat2 does!!
IMHO, using pvc. pipes for a lure holder is kind of silly for a coyote trapper.

Most guys think the pipe set is all about the pipe and keep bedding their traps like they always have. To me the bedding routine is the most important part. You can do your bait/lure or post however suits the situation. I just don't like to carry more stuff than i absolutely need to.

From what Iv seen on YouTube, I had the same conclusion. I post this hoping trappers might have had negative results with bedding and save me from some poor results. Just goes against what I was always taught. Looks so fast I will need to try.

Somewhere on here is a LONG post about the set that went on and on for years.......you'd need a few hours to read it all! Like over a million hits on it or more........

No set is bullet-proof.......including this one. Heck, this week, we got three-inches of rain and within 24 hours it got down in the 20's......I had a heck of a time getting anything to remain operational.....the frost and ice was ooozing out of the ground! No amount of grass or salt was enough......

I pulled some traps yesterday that were "floating" on top of the ground, i.e, countersunk slightly below ground level, and when I pulled them, there was a puddle of water in the bed but the water was NOT touching the trap......it was mild out, so the water had not frozen.....BUT a traditional bedding method would have had that trap UNDER water (or ice). My bedding style gets it ABOVE the water (or ice). Of course, with examples like three inches of rain this week, there are times/situations that the trap IS under water...but as the water subsides, it USUALLY gets down below the bottom of the trap.

If I trapped in more arid areas, I'd NOT make such a deep bed.......but most everything else would be the same.

Like the Bottom-Edge set, this is just another tool in the tool box.......but Ma Nature hates coyote trappers, so the set (like all sets) has limits. Heck, even snares are not bullet proof after heavy ice or snow and need to be tweaked, fixed OR pulled!

Mark Zagger

Finally getting some temps in Missouri wet and below freezing. Excited to see how the hammered in sets work.

It is NOT a silver bullet but should keep you in the game......MZ

I’m always amazed at the western guys that think the pipe is so unnatural that it couldn’t possibly catch a coyote. Hide the pipe , fill it with bait and catch coyotes .

A more simplelified version of this method for bedding traps might get me back to relegating DP traps back to specialty land for trapping raccoon.

Find a coon trail, hammer in as many 1.5,s in the trail as you think is warranted and move on. Doing this heavy on my river beaver lines when I get out to set beaver slides .

Wiley Carroll used a piece of bamboo for bait and lure. I saw it in the late 80s. Have used it. But. I like it drove flat down or a little below ground. 3/4 plastic pipe is a great substitute. You can get = bout 80 pieces of 4 inch pipe in a = 2 gallon freezer bag. I like that!

Bamboo was part of my learning curve, along with Grab and Die sticks, Grubstakes, T-Bones. etc.

The pipe is more durable than all of them, can be used over and over and over (except for the T-Bones, the other items are largely only good for ONE catch......I still have pipes that are 10-12 years old OR older that are being used).......also, I can drive them in directly (even partially frozen ground) WITHOUT the need for a pilot hole.........not true for bamboo, wooden dowels etc.

T-Bones are remarkably tough and can be pounded into hard ground, but alas, they also have a shelf life and either get chewed up, carried away, eaten, or just break after X-amount of poundings...........

If someone wants to dig up all the old Pipe Dream posts, there's a TON of information in all of them......

Zagman

Correct, I use thiss bedding technique with flat sets as well. A little wax sand and salt under the levers helps as well as 4 coil springs . Soils very greatly in regard to drainage. Even on my farm....

My son and I were setting traps on his property last year. 14 day weather outlook was wet with a few dry days scattered in. I used Zaggers method, he used traditional method.
All caught at first. Mine caught towards the of the 3 week period he could trap. 50% of his got washed out…100% of mine stayed functional. Some so much so he had a hard time finding them on pull day.
I don’t use this method all the time. There’s some times during the year we have a hard enough time just digging a regular trap bed. But, if it’s rainy season and that long range forecast shows copious amounts of rain, then yeah, they’re being incorporated into the line.

Although. I have never used the bedding system above. I have my own methods. I can see the value of it in freezing and wet weather. I’m a fair weather trapper now!! LoL! But I like the concept of a driven down pipe. I willl say this though. After 5 or 6 years on the same place for months at a time. You will see some odd behavior. The survivors? They get a little hip to the pipe. So 2 traps and moving placement of pipe maybe nessassary. BUT that’s just part of the game if you play it 365 days a year

Well, Mark's pipe set has a few limitations I guess. From this:



To this...



I guess not rated for 3-4 ft of water??

A 5ft pipe would have that bait smelling fresh!!

First coyote set I ever helped with was a "hay set". Only found out in recent years, the neighbor that showed it to me had reputation of being one of the better coyote trappers around. One of few examples of how he did it is shown in this video. Pretty much the same.......except........was set in crop fields........used a grapple for the drag..........he used two double long springs........I'm thinking maybe #3's.........and hay was used litter from a chicken house. I had to carry an old feed sack full of it out to the set. Grapple and traps went on the ground.........litter dumped over the grapple to hide it....formed in kind of a horseshoe pattern around the traps.........and traps covered with litter about the same as this guy covers his. A dab of lure on a chicken feather set on top.

No digging......no staking and weather not going to affect it much. The double long springs are going to fire. We didn't even cover the pans but I suppose a guy could.

I checked it daily for 2 or 3 weeks, no coyote......not even a tripped trap. Good set, perfect location......no joy. It happens.

When I start getting freeze thaw with Marks set I tend to go a little loose on pinching the sides in on the trap jaws plus a little salt. Another way that I bed that is similar is instead of cutting out the large cavity under the trap I will take my 3 inch auger and drill a hole straight down about 8 or 9 inches then bed the trap over that and anchor off to the side.
J

I take it back! After the water receded, I did nothing to this set. Just kept riding by. Day 3 after three after it went down…

Carolina, was that bedded Zags style with screen?

Yes. Pinched in place by hammering toward the trap, except just a fiberglass screen instead of wire, covered lightly with a softball size wad of grass clippings from summer time.

I just picked one up using the pipe set that was in for almost 4 weeks. It was set off three times by deer and twice by non targets but finally connected with a 38# male. Pipe set with mb550, steel screen and grass clippings.

Was the grass covering screen still in place after that much current.

Good enough to camouflage it a little, but i could plainly see the trap through the rest of the grass. Since i use the fiberglass screen i cut it a little longer so it tucks under the loose jaw and i can clamp it in place.

Nice patience!

I've said it a million times and it is based on my own mistakes:

Guys use too much grass on top of the trap and screen. It's a natural inclination to want to do this..........but it is counterintuitive ESPECIALLY once the snow flies.....

I make a set and walk away and can always see bits and pieces of the steel screen and the trap parts under it. If I could figure out a way to put ONE layer of grass on the screen that was the depth of ONE blade of grass or hay, I'd do it.

This is another reason I like screen......I know plenty of guys that don't use it and just cover exposed trap with grass. To me, to fill in that area inside the jaws and around the pan, requires more material. After it rains, that fluffy dry materials has to contract and I just don't like the look of it vs the steel screen look still providing a nice flat comfy place to step.

The steel screen, with TOO much material on it, especially after rain/freeze/snow becomes an impediment to success.........that material grabs water, freezes, snow piles on it, and before you know it, you have a frozen pancake of grass on top. Trap may still go off, but that steel screen gets pushed up by the springs and is either slowed down considerably OR pushes paw up and out and you get a toe or two......

If I trapped where no snow and freezing weather, I'd consider a different approach than screen......

Dear friends of mine made the sets the way I do BUT did NOT use screen. Just a local leaf or two that was handy. They had someone buy them some screen and now that they've seen the difference, they are largely running the grass covered sets with screen.

With grass covering and screen, less is more........and I guess it just takes some time and experience to feel comfortable leaving the screen and trap slightly visible in an effort to use SO little material.....

MZ

It’s 6 am. I’m eating breakfast. Drinking coffee. And reading about = grass and screen in a Cold sheep camp. Thinking about WHERE I can find some coyotes?? What a life!!!! LoL! Interesting read Mark

I agree.

Someone should find those other Pipe Dream posts from a few years ago and resurface them......TONS of info/input/challenges/suggestions in those........

MZ

I’ve gone out at night under a new and full moon to look at screen covered sets. Now my eyes probably aren’t as good as a coyotes, but all you see is the deck without a light. Nothing looks out of the ordinary and that’s with just black screen and no covering. With a little bit of grass it’s the same. What I’ve learned from night hunting is they don’t exactly have X-ray vision at night like folks think. I’m sure something obvious will stand out, as well as scent, but I’ve had them walk a trail directly to me while I’m dead center of a 2 track with my rifle on a tripod and shoot them at 25yds. He never knew I existed. I’ve also caught them on exposed pans after a rain…had to weigh the option of rebedding and adding human scent or letting it be.

Good stuff......too much grass is NOT your friend and is NOT needed.....but I think, like me, one has to prove it to oneself!

MZ

Nother one. Got about a half inch of rain monday, another half inch tuesday, and overnight temps have been in the mid teens and low 20s. Haven't touched a thing, just a new shot of pee on the pipe and let her fish.

Seriously considering playing with a different version of this with a trench style deep step down set with the void beneath for rain, and just using the grass and screen to cover it with. Rain and freeze resistance, with extra additional foot guiding. We'll see.

I use a trench/dirt hole and bed my set to the side. The only “dirt” is the hole and trench. The set is in the “grass” part.

Caught this one today, #6 at this set and #12 for this property. This set has been rained on, snowed on, frozen, thawed, you name it. Pipe at the base of an anthill and trap covered with screen and small amount of grass. Little bit of antifreeze flakes at the levers and jaws just to make sure.

Tony traps in snow like I do and I find ANY set with a trench fills with water or snow or both......

One of the thing about snow and pipes......we get our stink ABOVE ground which I find helpful in allowing the animal to find it easier.......

Of COURSE, any canid will smell your stink even if down in a hole and covered with five inches of snow.......BUT, can they get to it and TASTE it? I want them to find it, taste it and want MORE....and stay there, linger, pulling, circling, etc. Often, if they smell it, can't get to it, scratch at it, etc. they can lose interest and boogie on down the road. I want them to try to get to what's on the inside of the Tootsie Pop........and the pipe allows that, IMO, better than stink in the back of a traditional hole set IN THE SNOW.

MZ