Reading all this makes me so glad I bid on and buy federal and state timber sales. I pay per cord, not per tree.
Shouldn't be too hard to visit previous cuts and speak to landowners of some of the loggers you consider, ask for references.

we're discussing eastern hardwoods...different ballgame from what you're talking about.

species, size, form/quality and mbf's are what counts here. factor in difficulty of getting product to the mill, residual stand composition and spacing.

lot of variables to understand and consider, if you want to do it right.

of course, if your only concern is getting the most money out of your woodlot, that's pretty easy.

Another reason to hire a consulting forester is to help you not get screwed by the IRS. You must use a registered forester to establish a timber basis to depreciate from when you sell. If you don't then you will pay ordinary income tax rate on the proceeds. Your forester's fees are also deductible.

Agree with a lot you say white marlin. A lot of people have now idea what form class is. A 24 inch cherry with 3- 16 foot logs doesn’t have the same footage as a 24 in white oak with 3 16 foot logs just do to the taper in the tree. My uncle was a forester for DCNR out of tioga county for a little over 20 years. Wealth of knowledge. Talk to him whenever I have a problem I need help with. I like listening to you talk about forest management. Anyone who has ever had the pleasure of cutting a DCNR removal job will appreciate what good management does. My only complaint about a forester is everything with board footage is an absolute guess into how much footage is in a tree. The only way to get the exact footage is scaling the log after it has been bucked. With that being said most people bidding on the jobs don’t go by the foresters numbers. They scale it themselves.

It's interesting how the specifications of merchantable logs varies around the Country.
On the coast of the Pacific northwest, the standard conifer log length is 40 feet plus 10 inch of trim.
The ideal length is 40 feet, however, the average length in any truck load is usually specified as 37 feet. The minimum length is usually set at 26 feet. This allows the seller to maximize the best qualities of a particular log.
The logs may be cut in one foot multiples between 26 and 40 feet.

There are usually price breaks at 30+ inches, 24+ inches, 12+ inches, 8+ inches, and 5+ inches. The 30 and 24 inch log are generally rather uncommon nowadays, and can be more difficult to sell due to new milling practices.

Another thing that no one has mentioned regarding selling stumpage vs shares is taxes. If cut logs are sold on shares legally the entire income from the sale is supposed to be claimed as ordinary income on your income taxes. But if the sale is done as a standing timber sale you are able to claim it as capital gains income. Depending on the size of the sale and your tax bracket this can make a huge difference in your tax liability.

Why is it done like this? I don't know, it makes no sense but thats the IRS for you.

Depends on what part of the country you are in. I remember when I was a kid, what southern yellow pine brought. Today, it’s only a fraction, and so many timber companies own so much land in the South, that they control the market. Same thing applies to hardwood, it just doesn’t bring what hardwood does just a “little” farther North.

JJR,

shoot me a pm.

I buy and sell land and timber in central PA, and I have done all of the scenarios above. I own a parcel in Clinton County that is mostly steep. I was happy to find an Amish logger who is doing a 50/50 with me on it, because it is a dangerous and difficult job. It also has about 500,000 bf of nice hemlock, which the Amish buy up nonstop. It is a difficult tree to log because it involves so much limbing. In general, 50/50 is not a great deal for the landowner, better to sell hardwoods on stumpage to highest bidder. Anyhow, this is a good discussion.

White Marlin, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Coaching the High School wrestling team in Chambersburg past 2 days. Didn’t get home till late last night. I’m new on here. How do you PM? Thanks

Stumpage is the delivered value of timber less the logging and transportation costs. It doesn't matter how you get paid. Finding a tax preparer that understands timber taxation is very important(and actually hard to find).
At a bare minimum you will need a timber cruise by a registered forester to establish your timber basis dated back to the last ownership change of entity. Then you get to deduct any operation cost directly related to growth of the timber(burning, herbicide applications, forester fees, ect.). Then you only pay capital gains on the growth above the basis.

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We started the year at $80 but it's dropped, based on the warm winter & apparent surplus of firewood from last years storms.

Mill closure(s) have hurt our timber value