So, I've been wanting to join the MTA (Minnesota Trappers Association) for years but kept putting it off. I remember years ago, the last time I looked at it, it said lifetime membership was $200 without a subscription to trapper's post, $400 with the subscription. Now when I look at it, it says lifetime membership is $1500. Is that a typo?! When did they raise it to be that much?! And why? I thought $400 was a lot of money, which is why I kept putting it off. $1500?! Wow! I looked up how much it is to join NTA (National Trappers Association) just to compare the prices, they're only $1200 for lifetime ($500 without magazine subscription). Last I looked at it, it was like $800 or so if I remember right. So they went up in price too but there's a much bigger difference in how much MTA raised their price. And the MTA costs more then the NTA now? That just doesn't seem right to me. So really I'm just wondering what gives? I know inflation has affected a lot of stuff but I doubt that would have to do with inflation, or at least not only. Now I'm less likely to join cause I still think $400 is a bit much, $1500 is just crazy to me.

I don't know the answer to your question, but in general I would advise everyone to NEVER join an association for life. You might think it's the best thing in the world right now, but in one election cycle you can find the association you joined for life is actively working against the best interest of trapping.

Sure, it costs a bit more to re-up every year, but if you renew on a yearly basis, you at least know your money is going to an association that is actually fighting for what is best for the trapping community.

No idea why association's still offer lifetime membership's to be honest. Watched Krause and Charlie Rath go back and forth for a day long ago about what the actual cost to service a member is, never did get a straight answer on that one but whatever it was im sure that cost is alot higher today than it was over 20 years ago. I joined FTA for life in 1985 for 150.00 bucks, i get a magazine every month 12 months out of the year, how much has it cost FTA to keep my membership serviced through those years?

Last I looked NTA is north of 4000 LT members! What's the cost to them to keep those members serviced?

Oh how we miss Charlie Rath . . .

Ask the MTA folks themselves. We can all speculate, but they can give you the real answer.

Good advice. That is where I am at right now. Times and politics change.

Lifetime memberships are money losers for any organization, unless the member happens to pass away within a few years of joining and the survivors call to have the magazine stop coming.in.

Me too!

I believe I paid $350 for my Life Membership. I recognize the cost of servicing my lifetime membership with the Trappers Post and volunteered to opt out.

I believe I have seen 5 separate administrations since being a Lifer.

One reason the cost increased is the cost of servicing a member has skyrocketed. With interest paid on the Lifer account way down the cost had to be adjusted to remain solvent.

The MTA recently did an audit of how much it costs to service a member. They cant lose money, so the increase in dues reflected what it costs the association per member these days.

This right here

The high price will discourage people from becoming a life member, which is probably what the association wants. As Jackie and others pointed out, lifetime memberships are a losing proposition for the association.

I have some doubt that I'll join either MTA or NTA for life right now unless I get loaded with cash and don't have anything else to spend it on. MTA has a 3 year membership for $100 and that's a lot more digestible for someone like me so that's probably what I'll go with. I like the idea of not having to keep renewing, at least often which is part of why I want a lifetime membership. But oh well.

Honestly I didn't think it would cost much, or anything to run the association... guess I'm wrong...

Magazines eat up most of the membership dues you pay, even after ad revenue.

I became a life member of the Iowa Trappers Assn in 1988 for $250. Seemed like a lot of money at that time, but I have a concern that my magazine subscription is now a drain on the association. Not sure if I am even paying my own way. I hope they made a lot of interest on the $250 before gains became so small. Maybe I need to make another donation.

Could I ask you to enlighten me as to which trappers organization ever worked against the best interest of trapping?

Theres all kinds of expenses, some large some small. They all add up. Nobody wants to raise dues. It will likely cost members. But the association cant lose money or it will cease to exist. .

Thats a good question. If she means the Minnesota Trappers Association. She has no idea what shes talking about.

One factor of politics that has not changed is without the MTA and people like goldy is we would be trapping the way we do today. The politics in St Paul is we are target as often as not

Maybe someday 160 will explain what event happened to cause him to reach the conclusion he has.

Eventually lifetime memberships become a drain on budgets as the accumulated cost to service a member becomes far greater than what said member paid.

I have been told it currently costs approximately 30 dollars a year to service an average member every year. That figure is higher if the member is getting the trappers post. I don't know what , if any break the MTA gets from TP for a years subscription, if one purchases the subscription individually it's 21 dollars.

100 dollar 3 year membership is a bargain at those figures

I explained it in detail to the MTA president when I asked to cancel my lifetime membership. I figured that would give him an opportunity to apologize and he didn't take it so I just washed my hands of the whole thing. I am done and out. The details are between him and I. If wishes to post the email, he sure can but I certainly won't. The ranks just keep getting smaller.

I think that's what I paid for my life membership too. Who do you contact to opt out of the magazine?

Sustaining membership donations are a good thing for this reason Bernie

There are ways to raise funds that benefit trappers and the association. It is a win, win. Trapper association sales, that require membership to play, charge 10% or more commission, and achieve well above average market prices.

Some associations excel at this.

As over pay for something and have a percentage go to the association, thy not just give the association the money? Chances are you don't really want what they are selling anyway. I feel raffles are a much better bet.

Having someone knowledgeable fighting for your rights to trap is worth every penny to me. Still cheaper than an ex-wife or a drug habit....but then again trapping is my drug of choice...

The MTA does a very successful raffle.

How is a raffle win, win? Few winners and a bunch of losers. If a trapper association is not working to get members more money, they are not an association I want to belong to.

Seriously? The main purpose of the raffle isnt to raise money from members. The raffle is to raise money from non-members! Without the raffle, the association would have to raise dues to where most members would probably quit.

I understand raffles. Do you understand sales? Sales are a member service and can be an Association revenue maker.

Seriously, I have paid no membership dues. My increased trapping revenues from Association sales have more than covered the dues.

Raffle money goes to the general fund or?

You'll get smarter as you get older. Unless you're a Liberal Democrat, then all bets are off.

No.

Per MN law raffle money can only be used for youth education

Alaska is bit of an oddball in that aspect as it seems like from videos and accounts of the sales are a fairly novelty market. Lower 48 I'm not quite sure we can do that as really the only novelties we really can deal with is oddball colored critters or critters that aren't seen much of, like fox, weasels, skunks skinned with feet on to the craft buyers that show up.

Kinda thought so 49er hence the "or".

I believe western sales do well in States like Idaho, Utah, and maybe Colorado? Even in Alaska, one sale outperforms the other because of timing, buyers, and location of sales.

Every assoc. that uses the Trapper's Post or any other magazine as their official publication is getting it for a fraction of the normal cost. I don't know how it could possibly cost $30 to service each member. The convention should be a good money maker also. Raffles, etc. there are a lot of ways to generate income.

Trappers association dues and lifetime memberships are cheap compared to other groups. Many outdoor groups charge closer to $100 a year and members never bat an eye. A Gold Patron in Pheasants Forever is $25,000.

In the past at least organizations offering life time memberships with subscriptions generally invested in a l oosing proposition from a membership and dues perspective. The recently highly increased rates to me reflect that and why they are high as the cost of serving members goes up every year. The real value for most associations with life membership is the volunteering that comes with that for time and resources and the continued higher level of donations to the associations from their life members. Having more members on an associations list can also help in the political world as well. With organizations today taking different stands then it may not in an individuals best interest to be a life time members.
I became a life time member of the WTA when I turned 62 and the lifetime membership cost $100 then and came with a plaque and other paper. That sure was not a money maker for the WTA and that is with the subscription too. That was changed very soon after I became a life member.

Bryce

Bryce the same membership now is $700.

I don't know why they kept the lifetime membership, they should have just said no more new lifetime members. It is a dreg on the association and costs in the end. In a world where politics and money management is king, trappers sure know how to lose.

Sit on a board of trappers for a few years then you'll understand.

Dave I know knew that you were aware how the money can be spent. Making sure others are aware, it was a good question.

Bernie, by a "fraction of the cost", how much do you think that fraction is? 50 percent? 75? I guarantee you it's closer to 75 percent of the general price, I don't know a hard # for sure but I do know it's north of $14, figure in MN sends out a pretty fancy news letter 4 times a year also which isn't cheap to produce and print, 30 bucks isn't a stretch at all.

I was on the board of the Iowa Trapper's assn for 8 years I believe we were paying less than half the cover price per member for The Trapper magazine back then. Of course there were WAY MORE members than there are now. If the MTA is actually paying more than $14 per member I think it's time to explore other options.

Do you know how many members then, Bernie? Just curious.

I really don't know. It was a strong and thriving organization compared to today. I hosted the ITA convention in Forest City in 1987 and I believe over 6,000 people attended. It looked a lot different than it does today.

Thanks. We all know what the fur market was like then and it sure helped! But the ITA is still a strong and thriving organization. Membership has actually been increasing over the last year or so. And although maybe not as big as then, we still put on a dang good convention.

Our conventions that I have been to have been really good. Of course the attendance changes throughout the state but it is still good. We get a quarterly newsletter that is pretty nice plus get the Trappers Post magazine. Where do people think the money is coming from to pay for this. I think the membership should at least cover this if not more. Yes I think a younger person cannot afford the life time membership what it is now. I wish I would have got it years ago when it was to cheap, but my mistake. If every member had a lifetime membership at the old price the MTA would have to make up that money somewhere else. I don't think there is any association that is in place to loose money. What else do you think you should get for your membership. Just curious??

Thanks. We all know what the fur market was like then and it sure helped! But the ITA is still a strong and thriving organization. Membership has actually been increasing over the last year or so. And although maybe not as big as then, we still put on a dang good convention. [/quote]

I am not familiar with what it's like today, I have not been to an ITA convention in a decade. I know there are always a lot of good people involved in that state and the ITA is one of the healthiest state organizations and has been for half a century.

It would be interesting to see number of trapper's licenses sold today compared to the 1980's. That would be a shocker to most people.

On the Iowa DNR site they have a breakdown of all the licenses they sold in 2023, everything res. and nonres listed.take a look, more states should post this info.

How long ago was that?

Things change and subscriptions have dropped since the boom days.

I made some calls, the cost to the MTS is $14 for a member to receive a year of Trappers Post. We send out a glossy newsletter every quarter at a minimum cost of 3 dollars a copy. That's a minimum of $12 a year. I guarantee it's more. Last time I took elementary math, if a member receives both publications it's a cost of $26 minimum. Just for the publications, that doesn't include other incidental expenses that add up. At 30 to 35 dollars a year it's a bargain and doesn't leave much meat on the bone for things like fighting anti's and lawsuits.



It's not 1988 anymore.

Your printing costs per member goes up as circulation(membership) drops. One of the reasons why you cant go to digital option for magazines. If all members wanted a digital magazine like what FTA is or was doing. then it would be something to consider but you would get killed in printing costs if you had to print just a couple hundred magazines.

No advertiser's for the newsletter to help offset the cost?

They probably could, but if they don't already do ads it would take a lot of work to set it up and get it running, I think.

Since there are so many association knowledgeable people on this thread, I was curious are conventions costs, revenue makers, or revenue neutral?

They make money but ground rental keeps going up unless you want to go completely primitive.

This whole thread shows why trappers organizations are struggling. Trappers (not every single one) as a whole are the cheapest, least supportive of their own activities of any consumptive group on the planet. Pay up or shut up! I'm over my rant.

Not a life member of ATA and never will be. They need my money every three years. Plus all that money I have donated out of fur checks over the years. They have earned it.

Betcha Dean Wilson would argue that point if he could. All the same keep up the good work with all your donations.

ince there are so many association knowledgeable people on this thread, I was curious are conventions costs, revenue makers, or revenue neutral?

As was stated, fair grounds, etc. cost have gone through the roof in the last 20 years. The big national convention was usually a really good money maker while the regional's were hit and miss, usually losing money. But your getting your name out into different region's, signing up member's who probably wouldn't have other wise, etc. so it's a trade off.

Far as state's, some have them at a state park, low attendance so you don't need a huge facility to host them at so not alot of over head.

Can I poke a sleeping bear.
The read of this thread has got my new math thinking skills re-newed.

Sometimes divorces take the best half, especially with the traps in tow and Lifers

interest in 1988 was not around 16% for 5 year terms so $ set aside

and $ 100 bucks is a tank of gas now-a-days or two beaver

After 40 years of ATA membership I figure I’ve paid a few hundred more than the 500 the current life membership is. Like 160 said, times, politics, and those that run the show change.

The one thing that never ends is the anti's trying to take away what we do.

I agree.

There are any number of reasons or excuses some will use to justify not joining a local, state, or national trapping association, as there are trappers. Even if I don't agree 100% with everything an association is doing or has done, I'd rather join and feel like I was supporting something I love to do, vs. being cheap and not supporting anything. 

I think I'd have to call on this theory. Name one trappers Assn. that is actively now or ever working against legitimate trapping and the North American model of Wildlife Management??

The summer of 87 was the last high water mark for the entire industry. It's been a down hill slide ever since. We've slid so far down now, everyone is just nodding, and smiling as we go round, and round circling the drain

Industry needs to start making money and treating their associations as professional trade associations.

I agree. 50%. The reason I don't agree 100% is because joining is not enough, it takes money. If every trapper would give $100 cash donation on top of their membership to their association, we'd have a lot more stroke.

X3

I always thought life memberships were a bad idea for the organization in the long run. And if a life member really cares about the cause he will keep donating annually anyway. Once money is spent it’s gone for good so unless the life membership dues were invested and gaining interest that membership is now a liability.

Takes more than a financial donation to be a contributing member. You should offer a commitment of your time.
Every individual has a strength the Association can use !

Work the gate, pick up a broom, provide a demo , pick up trash, help with fundraiser, help move vendors in or out, build the demo area, place the tailgaters, donate to kids events.

Far too many strut into their Association’s gatherings and never lift a finger.

X2!

Thank you for noticing my "strut". I practiced it for a week in front of the mirror. It's nice to see it didn't go unnoticed.

Anybody who missed your strut , certainly noticed you in the midget mud wrestling !

That is a performance that will never be seen again at an MTA function. I am out. I think there was a few hundred dollars in the hat for the LDF too.

2poor I agree with your statement of contributing time as well. Dont even have to go to the convention to help out. Do a trapper ed class, go to the trappers rally at the Capitol, do a local fair the list goes on.


160, life is all about choices.

True story! And it was my choice to remove the MTA as my beneficiary on my retirement and pension.

By then we probably won't be trapping anyhow.

True stuff.

To answer the OP original question. Price went to $1500 in August of 2019. However affective March 3rd, 2024, lifetime membership is now $750.