Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: nimzy]
#8059422
01/24/24 09:15 PM
01/24/24 09:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 268 northern michigan
sjc
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 268
northern michigan
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Doing autopsy on rats is gonna tell ya what you already know. Doing a few habitat enhancements may just teach you something. Marshes, forests, prairies all mature. Small subtle changes over time slowly suck out productivity. I agree. My favorite rat marsh has been steadily getting worse. It's several hundred acres and used to be good for 1000+ rats. Last year I caught 145. The cattails used to be so tall you couldn't see over them. If you didn't know your way, you could get turned around. Now you can see for miles. There's huge dead areas with hardly anything growing. It's a managed waterfowl area and nothing gets done there. If you ask they say it's managed for waterfowl not muskrats. Well, the duck hunting sucks now, too. It's turning into an old, dead marsh.
Last edited by sjc; 01/24/24 09:17 PM.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: panaxman]
#8059543
01/24/24 11:43 PM
01/24/24 11:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,722 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,722
Rodney,Ohio
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PA Game Commission was collecting ‘rat carcasses in the late 80’s for the same type of study. I’m sure many other game agencies study the population decline. I’ve seen white spots on the livers; darn booze I guess They ought to exchange info. This is a multi state study IIRC. Ohio is also doing a collection.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: sjc]
#8059559
01/25/24 12:09 AM
01/25/24 12:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721 Michigan
BigBlackBirds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 721
Michigan
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[quote=nimzy] I agree. My favorite rat marsh has been steadily getting worse. It's several hundred acres and used to be good for 1000+ rats. Last year I caught 145. The cattails used to be so tall you couldn't see over them. If you didn't know your way, you could get turned around. Now you can see for miles. There's huge dead areas with hardly anything growing. It's a managed waterfowl area and nothing gets done there. If you ask they say it's managed for waterfowl not muskrats. Well, the duck hunting sucks now, too. It's turning into an old, dead marsh. Best I can see around here, the only way the old marshes (open with maybe some dead timber ) change is when theres money from DU to fund the project. I haven’t seen the state do anything on its own. The reclaimed marshes vary in habitat but many turn back to cattails
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059594
01/25/24 04:52 AM
01/25/24 04:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069 WI
nimzy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
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What’s wrong with cattails?
I agree DU is a pioneer in enhancements. Enhancements mimic nature and recycle marshes back to their full potential. Full potential wetlands create muskrats and ducks. Healthy marshes are not specie specific. When you have productive core areas adjacent water bodies carry residual populations. It’s spreading, cyclic and natural. The alternative is as sjc spoke dead marsh or stagnant.
State agencies fall short. They’re stuck in the mud, doing autopsys and “managing for ducks” lol. Does that surprise you?
When a marsh is riding on “full potential “. There ain’t enough predators to slow the machine.
Again IMHO.
Last edited by nimzy; 01/25/24 04:57 AM.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: Trapper Dahlgren]
#8059651
01/25/24 08:16 AM
01/25/24 08:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,606 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,606
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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The muskrat population in our Local Lake Ontario Lakeshore marshes has apparently crashed after being somewhat high for the last decade.
The international joint commission which regulates the water levels on Lake Ontario & the St. Lawrence River for Canada & the United States has been experimenting with various water levels both very high & very low to try and rehabilitate the marshes that have stagnated and filled in due to static water levels caused by the operation of the St, Lawrence Seaway.
Invasive Cattail, Purple Loosestrife, & the non-native variety of Invasive Phragmites have exploded in habitat killing, mono-culture, dead zones which is choking out our native aquatic, emergent vegetation which provides the food supply for our muskrats.
Meanwhile our county's Dairy Industry is rapidly expanding beyond the carrying capacity of the land & soil.
Small Family farms have been gobbled up by Large corporate CAFO's which have added 10's of 1000's of additional cows and adopted Liquid manure spreading techniques on our shallow soils which means uncontrolled runoff into our marshes resulting in lethal (BOD) biological oxygen demand choking the marshes ability to produce ducks, muskrats, shore wading birds, etc.
Throw in an over-abundance of predators like protected snapping turtles along with too many hawks, owls, eagles, & great blue herons and our muskrats don't stand a chance with this "Perfect Storm" of negative causational effects that combine to eliminate our muskrat populations.
w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059707
01/25/24 11:04 AM
01/25/24 11:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,217 Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,217
Eau Claire Wi
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I believe the invasive cattails he is referring to is the narrow leaf variety. If you notice when we were young the cattail seed pods were taller than the leaves not you can't see the seed pods cause the leaves are so tall. The narrow leafed type choke out the broad leaf native cattails. Also when the two hybridize they are more aggressive than either parent species
Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: SNIPERBBB]
#8059722
01/25/24 11:16 AM
01/25/24 11:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,606 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,606
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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By invasive cattails are you referring to phragmites? No, There are two types of Cattail. One is non-native & invasive. (narrowleaf) (Typha angustafolia) The other is native & indigenous. (broadleaf) (Typha latifolia) Also two species of Phragmities; Non-native & invasive: (Phragmities australis ssp australis) Native & indigenous: (Phragmities australis ssp americanus) Both non-native, invasive cattail & phragmities are harmful to marsh muskrat habitat. walleyed
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: walleyed]
#8059741
01/25/24 11:43 AM
01/25/24 11:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069 WI
nimzy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,069
WI
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By invasive cattails are you referring to phragmites? No, There are two types of Cattail. One is non-native & invasive. (narrowleaf) (Typha angustafolia) The other is native & indigenous. (broadleaf) (Typha latifolia) Also two species of Phragmities; Non-native & invasive: (Phragmities australis ssp australis) Native & indigenous: (Phragmities australis ssp americanus) Both non-native, invasive cattail & phragmities are harmful to marsh muskrat habitat. walleyed You are drinking the Kool-aid. Yes phragmities isn’t good muskrat habitat. However the best swamp I’ve ever trapped was primarily narrow leaf. Into the 5 digits in one season with a partner and no Spring season. Cookie cutter beauties to boot. Lasted a few years when draw down coupled with drought caused vegetation to grow out of control into an impenetrable mat or wall. Some one discovered them some years ago when trappers started complaining of declines and made the connection that narrow leaf is the reason.
Last edited by nimzy; 01/25/24 11:44 AM.
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059759
01/25/24 12:10 PM
01/25/24 12:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,606 Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
walleyed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,606
Henderson, N.Y. Jefferson Co.
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No,
There are two types of Cattail.
One is non-native & invasive. (narrowleaf) (Typha angustafolia)
The other is native & indigenous. (broadleaf) (Typha latifolia)
Also two species of Phragmities;
Non-native & invasive: (Phragmities australis ssp australis)
Native & indigenous: (Phragmities australis ssp americanus)
Both non-native, invasive cattail & phragmities are harmful to marsh muskrat habitat.
walleyed
You are drinking the Kool-aid. Yes phragmities isn’t good muskrat habitat. However the best swamp I’ve ever trapped was primarily narrow leaf. Into the 5 digits in one season with a partner and no Spring season. No, Not drinking the cool-aid by a long shot. Just repeating the mantra put forth by our NYS fur bearer biologists that the native broadleaf cattail was more readily grazed upon by the muskrat, and that cattail stands dominated by invasive narrowleaf tended to produce a thick, dry-land, mono-culture, expanse of terra firma over time that was less useful for muskrat habitat, and was negative impact to, & competition for, our native, aquatic, emergent vegetation that was more beneficial to rat production. I'd sooner trust you regarding high level muskratology than any book smart, college trained, fur biologist from NYS any day. lol w
"Provisional/Interim" member of NYS Trappers Association Jefferson Co. Fur Harvesters
I Support Non-Resident Trapping
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Re: Kentucky Rat trappers, dept F&W looking for....
[Re: KYBOY]
#8059768
01/25/24 12:28 PM
01/25/24 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,249 Alaska and Washington State
waggler
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,249
Alaska and Washington State
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I have a hunch that industrial ag chemicals might have something to do with what appears to be a huge decline in 'rat numbers across a vast part of the USA.
I would be great to see some research done.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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