Back in the late 70's, early 80's the trappers were at war with houndsmen over coons...The nice coon hunters would leave a .22 casing and a pool of blood, the not so nice ones would steal the coon & the trap.

Slide wire drowners were a Godsend back in those days.

"War over use of a resource" is the correct terminology as trapper les stated.

Respectfully, This is totally wrong. Please do not bunch all houndsman up. There are a few, there is also a few slob trappers, there are also gun poachers, a few archery poachers. There are also bow groups that press for laws against other groups. These are the cancer of the outdoors. Do not lay this at the feet of the majority of good hunters.

Plenty of dog guys chasing around these parts but it’s a free for all war on these things . Biggest problem here is conservation officers writing tickets for uncased guns in vehicle. Heck if your on a field road and shoot out of the truck what does it matter as long as the yote dies

I would be looking for the anti in sportsman's clothing selling this idea of not enough to go around or why it shouldn't just be open season year round of coyotes.
why they are pushing coyotes needing protection.

I think an anti is dressing up and playing sportsman to further an anti goal.

I was sitting there in a commission meeting when I heard “ it ain’t fair trappers can take as many coon as they want and we ( houndsmen speaking) can just take two. Now, just a short time later “ It ain’t fair hunters can kill all they want. We want the hunting limit back at two”. I believe it was out of the mouth of the same guy. I’m afraid many game decisions are being made in too much of a short term mentality. Who’s sqwauking the loudest. It seems some of the old wisdom and foresight is gone or maybe it never was there and I was to naive to know it. There seems to be one “ sportsmans group” that everyone else is aware of as often being a problem. There are guys that truly love their dogs, the hunt and the sport. What I’ve seen and seem to pop up are the ones that have night hunts and present each other four foot tall trophies for their dogs. First second and third place with just three guys entered.

Given that we are hearing the updated hunting closure dates of April thru July it does suggest that the hound association potentially impacted this position given that those dates specifically correspond to Michigan leash law dates. And there has been animosity between the hound association and trappers association as far back as I recall (and predator callers got thrown into the michigan trappers association along the way). But I still would like to know the facts of where this came to be rather than just speculation given that the council is suppose to manage based on science rather than just who is yelling the loudest. Does anyone know who and what was presented at the NRC meeting last week along lines of scientific data?

But it is funny to hear everyone from other places comment on coyote populations here

Response from the MUCC regarding the NRC vote

MUCC Coyote Closure Response


MIDNR Memorandum to NRC regarding furbearer regulations February 2024 - coyote hunting issue begins on page 6.

MIDNR NRC

I have known and know a lot of guys who both trap and hound hunt. United we stand. Divided we fall. Hunters and trappers should stand together against the animal rights scourge. Hopefully Michigan can keep it open season.

Keith

Thanks I had seen their response. Just wondered if there was anything else

I hope you understand it's because we can relate to state shenanigans involving dog groups, especially in Kentucky because it has been so prevalent.

This really isn't just a Michigan issue, because eventually it will bleed into other states with time.

Spent my late teenage years living & hunting in the Mitten, so not completely in the dark on things there...I'm going to contribute to the Michigan Trappers & Predator Callers organization war chest because coyote hunting is a big deal to a lot of us.

Oooooo I'm trying to not say anything on public forum about what I really feel lol. I have lived in a number of states, KY included, and yep its sorta a common theme. Even though in theory we are suppose to stand together there's too much bad history with the hound association. However, I'm not sure that I really am upset with the hound association on this one. More like the state politics

Gotcha, yep same here...We're on the same page....It does get old!

Here in VT we are having the same battle. They just passed a Bill s258 out of the Senate and looking like it will go to the Senate for a vote. This Bill will completely change our F&W board to allow anti hunting/trapping people on the board, will end Trapping and hound hunting coyote. Probably will end bear hound hunting next. Democrats have the majority in both house and senate. If we could only get people to vote! The only way we can change the environment right now is to get people to vote the democrats out of office. The anti's are well organized. One of the anti;s moved here a year ago i think from Wyoming his name is Rod Coronado and has a YouTube channel called Wolf Patrol. He has sunk whaling ships and blown up a mink research building in Michigan. He's spent something like 3 years in jail for some of his terrorist acts. I hope you guys can bring yourselves together to fit these people. I don't think there's anything we can do here but wait and see if this Bill goes to the floor for a vote. Good luck guys.

You're looking for a scientific reason from a dept.that now interprets wildlife management as social science?

actually i was looking for what legal routes would make the most sense

NRC Commissioner on the left and right. Hound hunter/president in the middle. Both these commissioners voted in favor of closing the season. This is in disregard to Proposal G. There is no scientific reason supporting the closure.

It's unfortunate when social pressure trumps over established science.

When I think of Vermont I think of fisher. Drove through there a few years back and it and New Hampshire were beautiful. It’s a shame that anywhere in the nation wildlife management is being decided by no nothing and no common sense politicians. When I look through old trapping and hunting publications I’m saddened to see places that have been “ lawed” out of existence. Those old pics of outdoorsmen with catches and large smiles are disappearing everywhere it seems. But, like you allude to. The problem is who’s being voted in some of these states making the anti decisions.

Plenty of dog guys chasing around these parts but it’s a free for all war on these things . Biggest problem here is conservation officers writing tickets for uncased guns in vehicle. Heck if your on a field road and shoot out of the truck what does it matter as long as the yote dies [/quote]

The problem I have with one fella is he sees my snare bait attraction way out on private land, and thinks he's got the right to walk in and look around where I am working. He knows I'll eventually corner him somewhere that he cant get away.

Another fellow, probably too old now to hound hunt, went around on the opener of cat season, and walked in on different cat trappers sets, looking for a cat track for his dogs, and admitted that to me. I felt that was unethical, so I threatened him in a couple of ways.

The problem I have with one fella is he sees my snare bait attraction way out on private land, and thinks he's got the right to walk in and look around where I am working. He knows I'll eventually corner him somewhere that he cant get away.

Another fellow, probably too old now to hound hunt, went around on the opener of cat season, and walked in on different cat trappers sets, looking for a cat track for his dogs, and admitted that to me. I felt that was unethical, so I threatened him in a couple of ways. [/quote]
You threatened an idiot , slob and a cheat, Not a houndsman.