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Building Soil #7983562
10/31/23 06:41 AM
10/31/23 06:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Eagleye  Offline OP
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Wisconsin
Planning some spring food plots. I would be interested to hear on plantings that help build the highest level of organic matter. Based on WIMarshRat’s previous posts on Buckwheat- that’s on my list, it seems like a good choice. I understand it may take several years to impact the soil substrate but I’m interested in starting. Hoping Bryce and others share their thoughts. Are there other varieties that should be considered to enhance feed the fields and not the deer?

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983635
10/31/23 07:58 AM
10/31/23 07:58 AM
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Posts: 610
WV
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garymc Offline
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WV
When I first started food plots, I had a log landing that was the perfect food plot location. It was completely void of vegetation with a fair bit of clay. I started in late May with buckwheat, lime, and fertilizer. It grew but was not a complete success yet not a failure either. In late august I tilled it under and planted a wheat/rye mix along with more lime and fertilizer it turned into a pretty decent fall/winter plot. The following May I tilled the wheat/rye under and planted buckwheat again. There was a definite difference in the second buckwheat plot. In late august I planted a wheat/rye mix along with Durana clover. It grew well the deer liked it. The next spring I mowed the wheat/rye as soon as it started to seed and was left with a nice clover plot.
The buckwheat, wheat, and rye will pretty much grow on a rock, but as conditions get better it grows better

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983645
10/31/23 08:10 AM
10/31/23 08:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Eagleye  Offline OP
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Wisconsin
Gary- thanks this is exactly the same application, I have two landing areas that are marginal and I need to improve. With the Buckwheat can I plant it twice in one growing season? My thought process is to terminate it before it seeds out.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983653
10/31/23 08:23 AM
10/31/23 08:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Law Dog  Offline
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Central, SD
My grandparents grew an organic truck garden in sand in the UP so it showed me with the right soil mixture you can grow about anything. I went with the soil testing route to cut the learning curve by finding the right balance sooner.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983654
10/31/23 08:24 AM
10/31/23 08:24 AM
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Posts: 610
WV
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garymc Offline
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WV
I guess you could try for two crops if you crowded up against your last frost date in the spring and the soil temp was up. Plant then as it went to flower terminate and plant again. It might run you close in getting a fall plot like wheat/rye established. The buckwheat won’t tolerate a frost whereas the wheat/rye would carry through winter

When I let the buckwheat go to seed I ended up with a small volunteer crop of buckwheat in my wheat/rye but the volunteers would die with the frost.

My rehabilitated log landing is one of my most productive plots in terms of growth now.

I so miss the days of $0.30 a pound buckwheat and don’t plant it as much now

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983661
10/31/23 08:31 AM
10/31/23 08:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 492
Alabama
K
KB64 Offline
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Alabama
First step is to get a complete soil test. You're looking for more than just pH and N,P & K. Your soil's CEC will tell you what you have to work with and how to proceed. Then your Base Saturation % will tell you where you stand on fertility. CEC < 10 you have a really sandy soil and will need to add smaller amounts of fertilizer more frequently. CEC> 20 and you're getting onto clay soils where your Calcium base saturation is going to be important. You want calcium >60% and up to 80%. K should be between 4-7%.

Organic matter increases are greatly enhanced by limiting tillage and planting diverse mixes that produce a lot of root mass. Daikon radish, cereal rye and annual clovers are a good fall mix. Vetch is another good additive. Buckwheat is good because it's a short lived annual that can be double cropped. You can mix in grasses like millet or a forage sorghum like Sudan-Sorghum. A lot of people are big into using a crimper to terminate these crops and planting into the residue. Timing is critical, you have to time it right to get it to crimp or it will stand back up with crops like rye. I think a better option is a flail mower that will chop the residue into smaller pieces and not wind row like a rotary cutter.

Be aware that planting into a heavy mat of residue from the previous crop is going to pull a lot of nitrogen out of the system as it breaks down. This is where a good foliar fertilizer program will help the crop overcome this nitrogen sink.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983670
10/31/23 08:55 AM
10/31/23 08:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 931
Georgia
sportsman94 Offline
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sportsman94  Offline
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Georgia
As KB said, diversity is important. Make or buy a mix that includes at a minimum a broadleaf, a grass, and a legume. Something with different heights as well. From what I understand running livestock through it is best case scenario, but then that competes with the desire to do it for wildlife.

All this depends on your deer density though. I cant get anything to grow in the warm season on almost 2.5 acres besides sorghum or millet that the deer dont fool with.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983698
10/31/23 09:39 AM
10/31/23 09:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Wisconsin
These two areas are new and soil sampling is on the horizon- possibly this week. In my other kill plots my main focus has been establishing proper pH levels first but I have better soil conditions in those locations.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983707
10/31/23 09:53 AM
10/31/23 09:53 AM
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Posts: 22,509
St. Louis Co, Mo
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BigBob Offline
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St. Louis Co, Mo
Pick your spot and get the soil PH checked. Most wood soil is very acid, Ag Lime and or wood ash will cure that.


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

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Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983739
10/31/23 10:24 AM
10/31/23 10:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,290
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Already sone good info here. To increase organic matter content as quickly as possible you need to grow a lot of biomass. Buckwheat can be a good summer cover crop but I think there are others that actually produce more biomass during the same time period. Sudan grass being one to look at. I would look at mixing species like crimson clover, phacelia and others. Those also help the pollinizers in your area.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983825
10/31/23 01:17 PM
10/31/23 01:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Law Dog  Offline
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Central, SD
I loaded the garden lime I had in my shed today to go to MO soon I noticed it had calcium and magnesium ratios in it was that added or just the normal blend when you have any lime? The stuff is the consistency of talc powder almost like dust.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by Law Dog; 10/31/23 01:23 PM.

Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983833
10/31/23 01:41 PM
10/31/23 01:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Wisconsin
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983842
10/31/23 01:55 PM
10/31/23 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 492
Alabama
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KB64 Offline
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Alabama
Originally Posted by Eagleye
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?


Yes, dolomitic lime contains magnesium. The 22 and 12% are pretty typical. One thing to remember, Mg raises pH at 1.6 times what calcium does. Calcium improves drainage where magnesium slows permeability. So if you have a sandy soil you want a base saturation Mg around 15-20% and Ca around 60-65%. In heavy clay you want the calcium 65% and higher with Mg around 10-12%.

Last edited by KB64; 10/31/23 01:56 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983850
10/31/23 02:05 PM
10/31/23 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,340
B61-12 vicinity, MO
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TreedaBlackdog Offline
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B61-12 vicinity, MO
Highest levels of organic building materials are those that produce the most carbon. Tonnage of material grown on top. For example corn residue is much more than soybean residue. For building carbon - plants that develop the most on top of soil build up the soil most when allowed to decompose as they also have better root systems. Organic matter can be increased by also bringing in carbon like compost, wood chips, straw, manures etc......growing your own carbon takes time to increase organic matter but it can be done. Goal should be to never have bare soil - of course every tillage pass etc you do also speeds up carbon breakdown and loss. Highest level of organic matter are found in systems closely patterning after native diverse prairies with livestock incorporated.
While in North Dakota the NRCS and producers were examining this intensively and without livestock the soil health would kind of plateau - livestock brought in healthy bacterias and organisms that aided in the ability to break down the carbon and increase organic matters quicker.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983853
10/31/23 02:17 PM
10/31/23 02:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
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Eagleye Offline OP
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Eagleye  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,991
Wisconsin
I’m going to hit my wife up for a herd of Buffalo grin

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983860
10/31/23 02:47 PM
10/31/23 02:47 PM
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Posts: 1,083
Eastern Shore, MD
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JoMiBru Offline
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Eastern Shore, MD
Great information here. As a farmer and deer hunter, some good topics have already been nailed by Gary, treed, and KB.

Soil test is very important, and follow the recommendations. I like a good mix for both soil health and a good food plot. You’ll want a legume , a brassica, and a cereal grain. The legume will fix nitrogen in the soil. The brassica will send a tap root to help with compaction. The cereal grain will provide grazing and take pressure off the legume until they establish.

Legumes- Clover, alfalfa, peas, beans
Brassica- radish, turnip, rape, kale
Cereal grains- wheat, buckwheat, Oats, rye

In your application, I would use buckwheat, rape ( dwarf Essex) , and frosty Berseem Clover. Mix some daikon radish in there if compaction is a big issue, that’s got a big tap root.

John

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983864
10/31/23 03:02 PM
10/31/23 03:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
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Central, SD
Originally Posted by Eagleye
Far from an expert but I though dolomitic lime contains magnesium?



Yes it says lawn and garden lime on the bags but contains magnesium I have 200 pounds of it.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #7983870
10/31/23 03:14 PM
10/31/23 03:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 11,262
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Indiana
Originally Posted by Eagleye
Gary- thanks this is exactly the same application, I have two landing areas that are marginal and I need to improve. With the Buckwheat can I plant it twice in one growing season? My thought process is to terminate it before it seeds out.


I plant buckwheat for my bees, I stager plant it every two weeks or so I till another section and plant again. I get blooms the entire Darth that way.

Deer hit it , infact my neibors wife asked her husband if I had mowed it off the deer did such a good job on it that time. I had a place with old tractor ruts I tilled a bunch an got it eveled out. I didn't want the bare dirt so planted that spot with buckwheat. It flowers in about 6 weeks.

My fields are generally healthy so didn't notice improvements ther but building organic material is always a plus.

Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8117964
04/08/24 10:46 PM
04/08/24 10:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 10,307
WI - Wisconsin
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AJE Offline
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WI - Wisconsin
I bought this pH tester the other day at Ace. I'm not sure how good it is. They had a moisture meter I thought about buying too but it looked pretty poor quality.

[Linked Image]

With planting season approaching, it might be nice to know soil temperatures too

Last edited by AJE; 04/08/24 10:46 PM.
Re: Building Soil [Re: Eagleye] #8118746
04/10/24 06:52 AM
04/10/24 06:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,209
So. IL
pintail_drake04 Offline
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So. IL
I'm a big fan of cover crops. I don't like to keep land fallow. I alternate between brassicas, rye, and clover. The literal tonnage produced in an "off season" between plantings can be astounding. This in addition to the application of compost has been a huge help.

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