My reason for considering the 450 is for live market trapping. My main question about these traps is in respect to pattern misses. I know they will hold a coyote as I have done it but does using them open you up to more pattern misses as apposed to using traps with larger jaw spreads? I've learned over the years to guide coyotes onto the trap pan in certain types of sets, like dirt holes. But, I can see some issues with guiding at flat sets. So those of you that use them do you find that maybe you are missing coyotes because of the smaller trap?

In short, no.
But with our 24hr check just go with regular jaws on the 550 if you’re worried about misses.

So the inside jaw spread difference between a 450 and a 550 is 3/8 of an inch, closed trap the jaw height is going to 3/16 of an inch difference. Functionality, no difference between traps . Both are pretty much 1 1/2 sized traps to me. My issue isn't so much pattern misses with these traps, because they have trap pans relatively the same size as traps with 6" inside spreads, it's poor catches and greater chance of pullout. It's the missing the pan that causes pattern misses

There's a guy on you tube Coastal land and wildlife (coastal coyote trapping Bill Smith )He uses The 450 and a 1.75 seems to do really well with them .I have missed more than i caught with them.If i was better at guiding i would use them more often.

You will have misses even if you used 9" Bridger Brawns. You need to be mindful and good at subtle foot guidance. It's easy...just have to remember to do it on each pattern.

They still have to step on the pan. Where you may have some problems is how the smaller jawspread traps grab the foot. May have more toe catches and lower/across the pad catches......which for the live market isn't necessarily a bad thing.....as long as they don't pullout.

Keep very strong springs on the 450s. If you can set them without saying "DANG!", then they might not be strong enough.

I watch Bill Smith from SC and he seems to prefer the smaller traps and does well with them. Although he does say that it is more for economy because he does make his living from trapping.

Yes I guess there really isn't much difference in the 450 and 550 size. I have done well with the 550 and have caught a few yotes with the 450( caught them in fox sets). I do have fox where I trap for the coyotes so it may be that in the more foxy areas I could set 450's and set the 550's everywhere else. I do believe that changing over to regular jaw traps would be beneficial for live market trapping. I didn't have very much foot damage with the offsets but why take the chance.

Thanks Swamp Wolf. lol. I don't mind setting traps with the stronger springs. I've gone to setting them with my feet instead of my hands!

Another thing is that you can't 100% eliminate all skin cutting on top of the foot....especially from a hard fighter....

And there will always be a really hard fighter or two caught along the way......

I will sell the good ones to live market and dispatch the other ones in the normal way.

If I could leave fox out of the picture this would be more economical. The property does have many more coyotes than fox though.

The 450 offset is a cutting fool. Every catch has a cut across the top of the foot where the bottom of the jaw rests. On thinner skinned fox tendons will be exposed.

But other than that they hold whatever steps on the pan.

It's not always about guiding. A friend of mine who can catch numbers with anyone makes one set 97% of the time. It's a set with a very large, open pattern. How he catches them in such high numbers is he gets them to spend a lot of time and effort at the set. They take ten or 15 step within a foot of the attractor your going to do better than a one step one sniff and gone. I think the attractiveness of lure or bait is somewhat underrated these days.

Believe it or not the duke 1.5 is better on feet than the 450. If I were doing live market I'd inside lam those and swap in a pit pan and call it good.

And they hold a coyote to boot though I'd probably bubble weld the jaw tips and baseplate if I planned on regular use for coyote.

Imo, time on set beats guiding.

Mine will be closed jaw.

I need a trap that needs no mods. I don't weld and its expensive to pay to get it done. Til you pay for mods you can buy a trap that doesn't need them. I do have a few factory laminated Duke 1.5 I will use or fox.

I do believe that the more foot traffic on the set ups the odds and you can always help yourself by subtle guiding. I have noticed though what guiding is acceptable to one coyote is not acceptable to another.

Do you guys think there is any difference as far as the weight of the trap for live market trapping? Does it make a difference as far as using the 450 or 550 for weight consideration? For coyotes that is.

I can't prove it but it's always been my feeling that more weight equals greater kinetic force for potential harm.

If anyone came out with a cast aluminum or titanium alloy jawed trap I'd be in line to give it a try. Two reasons less initial impact and less weight.

But everything being equal a smooth faced jaw that doesn't cut or excessively bruise is better no matter the weight. And weight probably comes in more if they struggle but the case can also be made for weight tiring them out so I can't make a solid call.

I would have to agree Warrior. I would think that the more weight the animal is lugging around the more potential for damage. I also think that the more swivels (within reason) would also greatly help.

Definitely swivels, minimum three for me. One at trap one mid usually connected to a shock spring, and one at the stake usually other side of spring..

I can't prove that the springs do anything more than make me feel better though.

I'm going to try shock springs on about have of my traps this year and see if I notice any difference. It's more to cover/bury at the set but may be worth it.

If you are going to get shocks get the JC Conners .I set up with shock springs and swivels.Even with that sometimes there will be an issue.

Will do Slipknot!

I've got some JC, Sleepy Creek and the PIT springs with swivels.

All work well as designed but like the pit the best. They swivel top and bottom so eliminates two extra bits of gear. But the JC and Sleepy Creek gives you four swivel points since you need crunch proofs on them. A toss up but the PIT is shorter.

If I had two choose I'd favor the JC over the Sleepy Creek.

I know a guy who live market traps. Favors the MB450 and Victor padded jaw. I believe he ended the year with 738 K9,s and will tell you the 450 is a fine trap !

Thanks 2Poor. Sounds good. I will be trying a few padded jaw traps also. At least down here I will not have to worry about frozen rubber cutting the skin.

If the temps drop into the mid to upper 20s for a few hours at night those rubber jaws are terrible on their feet.

If the foot (below the jaws) freezes hard with a full pad catch......go ahead and dispatch that coyote or fox. If it's just a toe (or two) caught it'll still be marketable.

I will keep that in mind Swamp Wolf. Thanks

I have used the Victor #3 RJ in the past and still use a few from time to time.Replacing the rubber is a pain on them. And they are hard to come buy.So I took a few of my 550 and changed them to RJ.I figured i am set. Then a problem arises on those and I started having toe catches and way too many snapped traps and pull outs.I have no idea what was going on with them.Never had that issue before .I even had a phone conversation about it with a member on here to see if he could shed some light.So i changed them all back to the original jaws i even had some Duke 550 that i put MB Jaws on.This weekend i had no snaps and no pullouts and All full pad catches .I have no idea why..

Are your 550 4 coiled? I have some Duke #3 rubber jawed traps and they are much slower with 2 coils so I 4 coiled them. They need the extra strength to come up through the ground with that big rubber jaw on them.

It is difficult to get any new Victor traps right now. Since COVID they stopped manufacturing them. Reason supposedly is that the steel is to expensive for them to produce. Yet, many other manufacturers are still producing traps. Go figure.

All mine are 2 coiled...

I have been playing with the live market coyotes for several years now. I bought 11 dozen Victor rubber jaws this past winter. You can put jc Conner pads on them with some trimming and they seem to be good for my style on short chains. I like the jc Conner shock springs on traps, but can’t feasibly put them on everything. I do seem to have less cutting when I use them, but they seem to fight a lot harder when I have them on. I think it’s because they feel the give

Yote65ga...check out Sterling Fur Co...for Victor traps....they got them.

Thanks MChewk

What size trap are you using?

Victor 3. I bought 3 dozen 1.75s as well, but haven’t used them yet

I've got a dozen 450 closed jaw on the way. Going to give them a try and see how they compare to the 550 as far as live market goes. I will also get a dozen or two closed jaw for my 550s.

Those 2 choices are as good as you're gonna get straight out of the box (without mods) for the live market.

So what would your 450 set look like for trapping coyotes? Chain length, swivels, shock spring, etc.?