I’m with Giant Sage on the demons not only being fallen angels. I was sold that they were the spirits of the nephilim, but some new stuff I’ve been listening to makes me think there may be fallen angels in the midst.

As for the books of the Bible outside of canonized scripture, I find it interesting that Paul and other apostles quote some of these books. Enoch being one of them. Whether or not it should be in the Bible I don’t know. But if it was good enough to be studied by the apostles than who am I to say we shouldn’t read it?

I just find it to be an interesting read. I'm not taking it as gospel truth, or really even that it's important.
The gospel of Jesus is necessary, but the rest is just interesting discussion to me.

Is you read Isaiah 14 from the beginning through I believe you my pick up the context of the one being spoken of is the king of Babylon. I'm not sure how the new translations twist or translate this passage. I use the kjv become its the version I'm used to. And the context of the passage seems to be referring to the fall of Babylon, and the return of Israel. Vs 1 For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob.
Vs4 Thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon.
Eventually the jews do return and the second temple is built.

Good Post Giant Sage. Great thread! Yes, Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 or complimentary to one another. Lots of good stuff there to learn about the fall.

As far as the Book of Enoch, I believe it to be 100% correct. The Bible makes absolutely no sense to me unless in that context. As far as origins and the "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also after that" I've tried diligently to figure it out, and do not have an answer. However, I know this, The Bible in the Book of Genesis repeats several times the same thing. When the Word of God repeats something again and again I take notice. What it repeats a lot in Genesis is ....."Ham, the father of Cannan." It never takes time to repeat who Japeth and Shem were the father of and what countries they founded, but I know at least three times it points out that Ham was the father of Cannan.

So, I think there is something going on there are for sure possibly with Ham's wife. I don't know. But Cannaan is modern day Israel and the same place that all the Raphaim and other beastly things were in. It was the promised land in Numbers where the spies went to search it out and said they looked like grasshoppers to the inhabitants there.

As for angels go. They are indeed interesting. I follow the late Chuck Missler and have gathered this about them from his sermons.....

1. Angels are personal beings. The have intellect. - Mathew 28

2. The have emotions and care. -Job and Luke

3. They have will and can make choices. - Jude 6

4. They are also spiritual beings and not limited to the material bodies. - Hebrews 1

5. Angels have locality and can only be in one place at a time. - Daniel 9 and 10

6. The always appear in the form of a man. - Matthew 1

7. They do not reproduce amongst themselves, but can indulge in reproductive mischief. Mark 12 Genesis 18

8. They do not die. - Luke 20

9. They can lead people by the hand. -Genesis 19

10. They can indulge in physical combat. - 2 Kings (One angel slaughtered 185,000 Syrians).

11. They have attributes greater that man, but less than God.

12. Angels are organized and ranked. There is one Archangel - Michael. - Jude 9

13. They also have chief princess. - Daniel 9

14. There are also Cherubs that guard the Tree of Life. These are very very powerful angels; and one of them used to be in charge of all the rest.

15. There are also Seraphim. - Isaiah 6

16. There is the Angel of the Lord, which is more than likely Jesus Christ

17. Gabriel is the Messianic messenger. He is usually announcing something about the Messiah.

18. Michael is a military leader.

19. Lucifer was the Cherub that covereth. He probably led fellowship in Heaven. He and 1/3 of his followers were cast out of Heaven.

20. Demons are different than angels.

Giant Sage,
Do you think it is talking about the King of Babylon or the forces that are behind/controlling him? In Ezekiel 28, it clearly is not talking about the King of Tyre, but rather the forces behind him.

What do you think demons are if different than fallen Angels ?
Obviously God's angels arnt evil, however Satan's army of "angels" would have to be? After all Satan is an angel

In the NT, demons always seem to be powerless except to the extent that they can indwell someone. The apparently always seek embodiment; such as when they partitioned to go into the swine. Demons may be the spirits of the dead Nephilim (Raphaim). I am not certain. Demons can speak and act through human victims and seem to have knowledge that goes beyond human knowledge.

Dr. Chuck Missler explains it much better than I can.

I believe it is both.
In Ezekial I believe he is comparing the king of Ty with Satan.
Both fallen. Like a theophany. Only Satan like rather than Christ like.

I lean towards the older writings of the Sumarians
The Annunaki where the fallen ones who came into the daughters of man and created the giants
The working force of the Annunaki came into the daughters of man and created the demons
The workforce were called the Agigi (sp)
And the Annunaki never claimed to be Gods, they even went so far as to say that the Creator would be angry if they claimed they were Gods

A couple thing about angels:

They are sexless according to Jesus. He was questioned by the Sadducees about a woman who was married to seven brothers. After each one died, she finally died. They asked him which brother would she be married to in the resurrection? He said, "They neither marry , nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

I'm not so sure angels only take human form. In Hebrews 13:2, it says, "Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it." Read a story written by a Catherine Moore about her father. Google, A father, a daughter, and a dog. I believe it's very possible God used a dog to answer her prayers. If I knew how to put this story on Tman, I would. Maybe one of you would like to. No matter what you believe, it's a very touching read, well worth reading.

I assume you are using that verse to talk about them not having sex, not their lack of gender. But those are the angels that are in heaven. What about the ones who chose to forsake their God given roles and come down to earth? Would they still be sexless? Genesis doesnt seem to think so according to the way I read it.

I'm going to straddle the fence on this one for equality sake,lol

Quote, but are like angels in heaven. So could this posably mean that fallen angels that have chosen to disobey God and fallow Satan could not marry in an earthly fallen state?
Just food for thought?

I don't think the angels in Heaven as Jesus mentioned have intercourse. However, I do believe that a fallen angel heck bent on mischief can make terrible circumstances take place.

Genesis 19 gives a detail of two male angels coming to rescue Lot. The homosexual men of that city, both young and old, were heck bent on raping those two angels.

The last Book in the Bible just prior to the Revelation is the Book of Jude. A short direct little Book that gets to the point.

In Jude 6, It says..........

"And the angels that kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation; He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities both them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth an example, suffering the vengeance of the eternal fire.

Fast forward to verse 14.......

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesised of these, saying; "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,

15 To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Can it get any clearer than that?

Many biblical scholars take this to mean angels are sexless since there is no procreation in heaven. Hence, Jesus meaning there is no reason to marry or be given in marriage.

I can't believe people who are atheist still comment on Bible threads. What's the point?

You Sir, I believe to be grossly wrong. Not only intellectually, but also factually.

I was an agnostic for many years, but my heart and mind tried to find the Truth. I wanted Polaris, as my heart craved it.

I hope you continue your endeavor on seeking the Truth, because if you do; then it will change your life forever.

If you sincerely think that what is being discussed here is total BS, then why do you comment on it? Disparaging us is not productive; I can assure you that most folks on this thread are solid in their Faith.

Since you mentioned it....

I would like to see your version of a better 10 Commandments?

...can we PLEASE not.. when whole atheist vs Bible thumper thing gets pretty repetitive. And honestly it's usually pretty unproductive,at least in here
He don't believe because somthing something no proof something something scientific what have you something something fairy tails
And others are gonna say something along the lines of something something Jesus Christ Lord savior something something The Bible is real because the Bible says so , insert something about Romans documenting the crucifixion

Then the name calling is gonna start somone gonna call someone else a Democrat or something.... again it's all pretty repetitive and unproductive

Can we just not ?

Wildlifeartist, in your search for truth, have you researched any of the fantastical/supernatural stories from today? If so, what do you chalk them up to? Even if half or three quarters of the modern day stories are fake, how do you make room for the rest?

Such as people having near death experiences, claims that angels (or other entities) helped people alongside proven feats of supernatural strength, etc. Things that are 100% factual, with little to no rational explanation.

I enjoy the dichotomy of our modern thoughts. First it’s: ancient man was so barbaric and dumb. We are the most evolved society that has ever existed and it’s also: ancient man wrote a book that was as complex as the Bible which we are still drawing on and trying to figure out today.