I got a call yesterday on my way home from hunting with my son that one of my cousins hung himself.

He is my age and went to the same high-school and later worked at a plant I worked at plant I did for a short time . We were never close and I have not seen him in probably 20 years but it still hits hard. What can make someone want to off themselves let alone by hanging?

The man was my age. Him and his sister were adopted by one of mom's cousins as young children because she could not have kids. Their last interaction 3 days before was a hateful fight I heard. I'm sure his adopted mom will have a lot to deal with there as well as his sister.

Because I have not had any contact with him in so long I keep going back to he was married and had a kid or one on the way back then. I Think he caught her cheating and got divorced and quit the job where we worked ( his father in law had been there forever) that didn't break him has me wondering what in the heck happens to him.

Mom acted like his mom said he was messed up with drugs and thats what there fight was about him asking for more money so.. likely drug issues.

story is his nurse girlfriend came home couldn't get in the bedroom something was blocking the door she got it open and found him blue hanging. Now ther is not much in most apartments you can hang yourself on and being he was blocking the door maybe rope tied off to the handle on the outside and ran over the door to the inside is all I can think of.

I can't ever understand why anyone would want to harm themselves ( short of painful prolonged illnesses that will lead to death) but least of all by hanging. Sure seems like a bad way to go. I truly wonder what goes into a person's mind and what can be done if anything to get then to a better place to avoid these outcomes.


The kids won the lottery getting adopted young into a good stable 2 parent home and the world at his finger tips. His sister I have also not seen in probably 12 years last time she looked was a single mom. I heard from another cousin that also had not seen them on about 20 he saw a face book post she made where she was covered in ink, looked silly and bad, wearing very little clothing. Doesn't sound like she is doing very well either.

It stinks I still remember them as kids playing with me at the family gatherings. What in the world happened?


I guess I just got to thinking about it because the service starts in an hour and I'm not going. Opting to spend my time at home with the family before I have to leave for work tonight. I'm not giving up even a few minutes at home with them because some soft headed move from distant family.

No idea.
Had a childhood friend/ fishing buddy do it 40 years ago, still don't know WHY, and a relative last year.
Relative was understandable, as he had been fighting cancer over 10 years, was in constant pain, and simply tired of fighting it.

No idea what is in people's heads or what they are going thru.

I'm just feel sad for those left behind...

The need to escape.

To bad for him.

adoption is a funny thing , you think they won the lottery getting good parents and in may ways they did.

but it doesn't make them not broke , they are often broke just from being given up , often they come with issues the same issues the birth parents had that made them say they couldn't raise the kids.

the nature nurture thing it's definitely some of both.

in a lot of cases . people who think about or choose suicide were just wired different basically from the start, there is always some nagging voice in their head some find a way to shut it down for a while with substances or push past it thinking they can achieve their way out of the voice.

some people go through things injury or stressors that re-wire them to think that way.

I don't know what the answer is I just know that people like you and I who just can't fathom it . it is because we are not wired that way , we also have a very hard time trying to understand those who have that miss-wired mind , what they feel or think.

because we don't even have that circuit

It will become a real epidemic in the future dealing with problems is a thing of the past look at the family structures today problem solving is not being taught like it was before.

I can tell you the: who, how, when, & where but the why is not something that we can answer. I can come up with a opinion based off history & investigation, experience in the field,and maybe even be lucky enough to have a note but the why is never known or understood.

I have seen it from children as young as 6 to 102. Still it's never good for the remaining family & friends

satan and principalities of evil

I've got a neighbor family that has a history of it.1st one back in 1985 shot himself then the brother in 1999 by hanging himself in the dairy barn after he finished milking.the dad in 2012 standing by his sons grave by means of shooting himself.my ex daughter in law brothers both shot themselves at young ages in there 20s and I know of others.iam not sure if it's some type of chemical imbalance,depression or not.i just don't understand taking your life I consider them to be selfish individuals when they leave family members behind and never really have a answer

Had a first cousin in 2016 lean over a shotgun and touch her off he was 55 . Mental illness is real and this guy never liked the aspect of getting old . I forgave him for what he did but I’ll never forgive him for what he did to the family.

Be thankful you can not understand it. I understand it now, but could never do that to the people who love me. It's a loss of hope. For some people who don't have God, I think the demons just overwhelm them with irrational thoughts, but even if you do believe, circumstances can seem too much to deal with.

This

No way out. Surrounded by trouble real or imagined (but just as real) and every route out appears to be a dead end or worse. There comes a point that the pain must end.

Be the way out for someone.

Weak minded people there not a better life waiting for ya just pain.

Gotta say, as someone who personally went though that mindset for a few years, you won't really understand it till you've gone though it personally. Not one of those things you can just explain in a KISS method or fix overnight... Though warrior is pretty close.

It is called depression anxiety or both. There is not just one cause. Stroke and heartache victims can fall into depression. Combat vets get PTSD can lead to depression and anxiety.
It is real and serious. It is no different then any other ailment to the body. Except there is no physical appearance to it.

By some of the comments made above. You wonder why people are afraid to come forward.!!!!!

If you know someone who is suffering let them know there is help. If you are suffering from suicidal thoughts. Go get help!!

It is not cowardly to ask for help!!!!!

The debil loves to torment those with no hope

Every day you wake up - you have 2 voices whispering in your ear. One desires to destroy you, one has died so that you might live and understand the price paid for your life. I pray, you begin to understand how valuable each and every one of you really is. Please, never stop fighting! Each one of you has much more value than you will ever know. You are loved beyond comprehension.

I had a young man 17 years old working for me. This kid had life by the tail. Star football player. Straight As in school.
His girlfriend of a couple years found someone else and he couldn't handle the break up. This was probably 20 years ago now.
Weird thing is that I have dreamed about him the last 2 nights.

Close to 40 years ago I drove a 15 passenger van hauling people to the factory we worked at it was about 110 mile round trip.i would pick some people up at there residence and the rest would meet in a parking lot and pick them up there.the one guy that I usually picked up first started telling me one day that he was looking down the shotgun barrel last night.this went on for a few weeks where he would bring it up once in awhile. I tried talking to him and tried to get him to go get help and that I would go with him and keep it confidential he wouldn't go.so I ended up talking to a counselor about what was going on without disclosing his name she said the reason he kept telling me this was a cry for help and usually people that do this don't end up committing suicide.i had alot of sleepless nights wondering if he was going to do something.thank God she was right and he never did anything and is still living today married and 1 kid.

My college roommate/best friend hung himself a week before senior year started. I still think about this and ask why?

Every day I anticipate the dreaded call about a love one. Impossible to describe what all goes through their mind and the tormented (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) they live through when it’s mental illness. Too often the reality they live is broken perception. They can’t process information as we define as normal. Nearly 30 years of attending doc appts, therapist, psychiatrist, and s on. Mental illnesses is the most over looked and least treated thing in this country. Only a hand full of meds help or work. In so many cases, the cocktail of meds is o joke of a guess and don’t work.
I’m a relatively religious individual and it makes me sick when I read the tie in to religion and as if it’s their “fault” and they are going to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman). I don’t accept that at all. Just like when a cancer patient stops treatment. They are no longer prolonging life and the suffering by passing sooner. Does that mean they’re going to rot in (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) too??

As for the OP, won’t know why. So many factors and speculations. All I can suggest is for those that are here with us still, have that person in your life that will listen. They may not understand everything you are enduring, but they will try and will always be there when you ask

I've always said there's no person in this world worth taking your own life because they no longer want to be with you there's to many fish in the ocean matter of fact talked to my grandson last night and asked how things were going with the girlfriend.he said they weren't together anymore things didn't work out and my reply there's alot more fish out there he laughed and agreed.

Yep. One of the main things that stopped me from getting help for as long as I did was the way people acted.

Remember having conversations with family when I tried to talk a bout my problems and just got stuff along the lines of
" Well you just gonna be hurting yourself and no one else so why are you telling me ?"
" Well just man up already and just get over it"
"I've never been so in happy I thought of killing myself so what's your problem?"
" You look happy so you can't be that depressed stop complaining "

Aling with being told to just drink like a man , go to church, pray ect..

Like clap clap it's wonderful you never have felt like this but your comments of just be happy and get over it aren't doing anything to actually help.

Made me completely shut off from trying to get help.

Honestly was just easier to put on a face and act happy for others so they didn't ask and if have to go though all that.

Funny enough when I finally got actual help and they found out they where all at my parents and what not trying to talk asking why I never asked for help or tried talking to someone yadda yadda .

Have talked to a lot of people dealing with the same problems and most especially men dealt with the same stuff. Even worse for veterans/LEO male and female. O you supposed to be trained and thought and all that . I talk to vets from Korea,nam and the GWOT who just plain refuse talk to family because that's what they get .

Lotta people don't really care or take things seriously till someones hanging from rope or their brains are splattered on their bed room wall. And call that insensitive or whatever but it's just plain true.

Anyhow.

If you're implying that everybody who commits suicide goes to the hot spot then that's just plum silly.

Mental illness is very complex and there's many different kinds. Nobody really understands it.

I don't think it's mental illness. I know a lot of people who are truly mentally ill and not one of them want to kill themselves or anyone else for that matter. It's an individual thing. Like wolf dog said, if you're depressed and contemplating something stupid and suicide is stupid, get some help. I've seen some of my veteran friends get close to suicide and got help. They learned to deal with the horrors of war and we're glad they got the help. I'm sorry, I'm just rambling!

Mental illness is not being weak minded.

Warrior nailed it...They can't see a way out.

mental illness like depression or incurable debilitating disease

I’m not one to post often From personal experience real mental illness is a tough road to walk. Watch Chris Stapleton’s Fire Away sometime. It can break your heart. Like when your wife of thirty years asks” do you hear those voices” and the house is completely quiet. I think sometimes the pain becomes too great and they just want it to stop. It’s not going to be rational because they aren’t rational. Get all the help you can for you and yourself. God Bless all going through this

Look up side effects of meds they prescribe and you’ll find your answer…

Well if your ever find out , I would like to know, had some young friends knew them when they were born and watched them grow up, raising a family, had the cutest kids, Mom gets up one morning two years ago to get them breakfast the oldest boy 8 years old, does not come down, she goes up and finds he hung himself over the bed during the night, dead is as dead gets, see's a note say's he loves you all but can't take the bullying at school any more, good bye

Makes me cry just typing it out, how can one understand that ?? I'm no newbie to family passing having two of my own taken after an auto accident, but we had time with them and knew what was coming, they could not do it so the Lord took them back, but 8 years old and knowing how to hang your self, Geeez !!!

Huge lack of self control in today's society, see it 3veryday. Obese fat slobs everywhere, etc.

Thanks for all the responses. They truly made me think and reflect. First I guess typically I'm one to have a negative response like Wolfdog91 experienced. Mostly because I don't know how to relate to things I have never experienced. There are a few of them. Addict and depression are right there with suicide for me. I never have experienced any of them and don't understand or know how to relate to those having issues. often with addiction destroying their life's and families.

So now with all this added perspective I have come to a few conclusions. #1 I guess some things I honestly never want to be able to understand because that will mean I have experienced the struggle and I never want to.

#2 Do my best to have empathy and try to learn what to do to help those that are struggling. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it's not very real to those struggling and can end with horrible results. So the big question now is not trying to understand what I'm never hopefully going to never be able to understand but how in the world can you recognize and try to help those that ask struggling with something you don't even understand? other than trying to get them professional help. but that may be wores when all the mess they pass out say they increas risk of self eliminating.


Maybe it's just my cave man mind set but if things ever get that bad I would grab some cash and take off and start over with what's on my back and never think of self harm. Depression and laying around in bed for days is also mind blowing to me. Dad has had issues like that as well as one of my wife's friends husband. Add addiction destroying people's lives and families and letting something become more important than your family and get a hold on you like that is beyond my ability to comprehend.


But these 3 things are likely some of biggest problems in our country and don't seem to have any really effective solutions. So many people and families suffering. Boy I must be getting soft in my middle age. I mean heck I had some major issues with anger, being jumpy, among other things when my son was killed. Was told it was classic ptad but I never went to get labeled Mostly because of the push at the time foe mental health and gun control. 2nd I wouldn't take the meds they would try to give so I worked things out on my own. But even then I very well may have killed the guy that killed my some I never once thought about hurting myself.

And why inalways had a crass well addiction and od is a self solving problem, same with the rest . But getting older I can see There is more to things than what I can see and understand. I mean that's a given there is plenty of science and math that is beyond me yet I see the benefits. But looking at things I don't understand like this I see the toll it takes and now see how my poor my mind set was word the topics. It will take a lot of work to correct and will be difficult considering not being able to understand.

Maybe just knowing and admit the problems are real and effect so many and being mindful that I don't understand is a good start or maybe even enough.

It's sad to see so many and so much lost and wasted. Now that 8 year old story was just to much.

One of my best friends suck started and 870 12ga. 28 years ago.
No one knows why, he left no note or gave any hints prior that he needed or wanted help. He had life going his way and under control.

Also had an aunt and 2 cousins that have committed suicide
Aunt and son was related to an opioid addiction.
My other cousin had been battling depression, she left a note in the bottom of the deep freezer. Obviously wasn't found until the meat and fish in the freezer had been ate down.

I have known a few others that were friends,but not real close.

I don't understand it for sure

the sun will come out tomorrow

I don't know the answer.

But.., I don't feel remorse for anyone chosing to do it.
I just hope they do it in a way it's not a mess for someone to find.
Some people have Demons in their brains.
Some may have health issues they are sick of dealing with.
Some can't afford the unfricken amount of $$ it takes to get " help".
Some just can't afford to " live".

Below is a link to the countries with the higest suicde rates. Note that in almost every country the rate for men is twice as much as for women if not more. Women are linked more to what is classified as depression then are men but there sure must be other factors involved as well.
Our daughter is a professor of Clinical phyc. and is currently working with several grad students in here department, other US departments and several departments around the world to research the genetic links to or for depression. There have been several studies on depression, choromosomes, anxiety, trauma etc. etc. There is evidence of genetic linkage but it is extremely diffucult to be able to isolate as there are so many, many genes.

Bryce

https://www.statista.com/chart/15390/global-suicide-rates/#:~:text=South%20Korea%20and%20Lithuania%20had,and%2010.2%20cases%20per%20100%2C000.

Yup, women make men depressed.....and then....

From what I know
Pain, mental or financial
Anger, I will show you
Mental, I am nothing
Get old and want to see Jesus

I was close to it at one time.
A friend,a combat vet, with PSD seeking help went to counseling, He asked if anyone had ever been in a firefight, no one in the group had. He asked how can you help me.
The counselor told him to leave "you are crazy".
He with help from family and friends is working though it.
In my opinion the Army should fire that counselor.

I was real close. Bad back pain. Unable to do anything. Figured if I couldn't live it was time to die. Wife called the VA. Put me on morphine. Withdrawal was bad. I didnt know I was addicted. VA sent me to Leavenworth. Doc said he didnt know if surgery would help. It did. I was lucky. Came home quit taking the morphine. Got sick thought I had infection. Doc chewed me out said I needed detox. It had already been several days and was not dead so just stayed home. I understand completely how some people don't think waiting for death is in their best interest.

I don't understand what makes a person take their own life. The best you can do, in my opinion, is work on keeping your own mind and body healthy. Try to support those you love in doing the same. But, I really don't know--it's very sad.

It's especially tragic when it is a young man or woman. The bullying thing is real (we had it but it was just part of life back in the day and kids could handle it better, I think). I have instructed my kids to beat the brakes off of any kid they see bullying a weaker kid. I'd rather deal with that than read about another suicide in our community.

It’s supposably in the Bible, take your own life, go to hades. Probably the only reason I’m typing this.

If you are out of your mind so much that you will take your life, are you mentally competent to commit a sin? Obviously, there is a spectrum but I am not so sure everyone who takes their life is headed to Hades. But again, I don't know.

It’s supposably in the Bible, take your own life, go to hades. Probably the only reason I’m typing this.
[/quote]
It's not. Jesus's death is enough to forgive all our sins. This comes from a (catholic?) mindset that you have to confess and ask forgiveness for each and every one of your sins or you won't be forgiven. Hopefully you have a good memory and don't forget, I guess. The thinking is that you obviously can't ask forgiveness for suicide if you're dead. This is clearly not the case though. When Jesus was on the cross, one of the dudes next to him said " We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom" and Jesus told him “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” That guy confessed to being a sinner and being deserving of punishment, and asked Jesus to save him, but, importantly, didn't confess to any sin in particular. Yet Jesus still saved him.

No it's not.

It's not. Jesus's death is enough to forgive all our sins. This comes from a (catholic?) mindset that you have to confess and ask forgiveness for each and every one of your sins or you won't be forgiven. Hopefully you have a good memory and don't forget, I guess. The thinking is that you obviously can't ask forgiveness for suicide if you're dead. This is clearly not the case though. When Jesus was on the cross, one of the dudes next to him said " We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom" and Jesus told him “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” That guy confessed to being a sinner and being deserving of punishment, and asked Jesus to save him, but, importantly, didn't confess to any sin in particular. Yet Jesus still saved him. [/quote]

***************

Catholic here. Let's say you are good with the Lord up until you pull the trigger. The last act is pulling the trigger and committing a big sin. You are no longer good with the Lord.

The other dude on the cross was about to die. He confessed right before death and was therefore good with the Lord.

Again, I am a Catholic so I am admittedly not a biblical scholar--although I have been doing a lot of reading!

I think the large difference between now and then was we only had to deal with it for a few hours a day. Now kids come home from school and spend their entire time on social media where the bullying doesn't stop.


Ol dad

Excellent point.

Sitting down at the dinner table with your family every night, opening with a prayer, is a far better remedy than any prescribed medicine.

Ol dad

So many ways to discuss death.

I do not believe a person who commits suicide go to hades. They are not in their right minds mentally. Something is chemically wrong with their body and causes depression so bad they cannot get out of it unless they seek help or are committed.

To say someone will go to hades who commits suicide will also condemn every doctor and nurse to the same fate. How many nurses and doctors have given a terminally ill patient a control for an ungoverned morphine pump in the name of mercy?

I had a cousin commit suicide with tylenol. Very potent OTC when taken in large amounts. She was stuck in a circle of needed beauty affirmation and was not getting what she needed. She died thinking she was too ugly to exist. She had accepted Christ as her savior and I know she is saved. It was awful what happened to her.

If you see no way out of your situation, GO TO YOUR DOCTOR!!! Mental health is more important than physical health. We all need help coping with this world. Some get it from prayer and GOD. Some get it from professional help. Either way, there is no shame.

This is motivating me to get help as I don't know what will happen with me. I have PTSD as a Gulf War vet. I haven't sought help because I consider myself "tough enough" and think there are other people who are worse than me that need it. I don't want to take away from their possible spot. Thanks PF.

Every child needs a healthy father and every wife needs a healthy husband. Stay healthy mind and body.

When you begin to understand how much your Heavenly father loves you as His child - you will begin to understand with Him, all things are possible. Bowhunter - I encourage you to read through and understand what Jesus has done for you and then truly think on it and let it sink in who you are to Him.

Some of you reading this now feel hopeless, have nothing going right with you and life just stinks. I encourage you all in times of desperation to cry out to our Creator and allow Him to pour out his love into your life. Understand that not one of us is without sin and we all need the redemptive work of Jesus Christ in our lives. We are His creation and who better would know us. Our generation has kicked God out of our nation and it will be even rougher for our children and those behind us if we do not lead them to Christ and the knowledge of who they are in Him. When we can begin to understand that God sent His only son to die for our sins so that we may have the hope of eternal life in Him - we should receive joy. It is a battle daily. We are commanded to take our cross up daily but the good thing is, the battle has already been won for us. We can not save ourselves - we can only admit we are sinners and need saved from our sins. When we receive that freedom from grace, our lives will be changed. Does not mean the attack ends but we do have One fighting our battles for us if we yield ourselves unto His grace and forgiveness.

Only a single qualification to receive the precious gift of salvation through grace - need to be a sinner - pretty sure we all have that one down.

I have been through it with two very close family members In both cases alcohol was a part of the problem But the truth i s I believe the problem caused the use of alcohol not the suicide Of course our family is not perfect but
t neither is it a never ending battle of hated for each other In fact I would say most people would be glad to have brothers and sisters that are like mind It is impossible for nearly all of us to know why If you have the kind of thoughts you should g get help immediately And i can tell you from experience it hurts those left to try t o know why feeling helpless over the loss they are now faced with Life is hard some times and I have no explanation hat makes it any easier.

Mental or Physical pain is the big factor and a lack or treatment or no desire for treatment. I for one will not go into assisted living I have watched to many people linger there because its big money for the facilities and a lack of freedom of choice in our country. We are allowed to treat our animals more humanly that elders that want to go with dignity and respect when there time comes. Wy has a very high rate of suicide and a lot of it is because of a lack of mental illness facilities and travel time. The attitude of someone dealing with depression is expected to cowboy up and deal with it. I think with a lot of young kids is pressure from social media in so many ways. The interenet even has sites that walk them through how to do it, very sick but that is where they turn to for help, not trained clinics.

It breaks my heart when I hear that another veteran gives up life.

Of course, anyone who does that , it's heartbreaking to hear.

My soft place is especially for veterans , who have given so much , and still sacrifice so much just coping with everything , after their service.

Words need to be "seasoned with salt", so as to KNOW how to make a response , to help.

The VA has refined its help much better than years ago, and there are very good groups of vets who are amazing in their help. All the time, to fellow vets in their dark times.

They are on call 24/7 for that one vet who needs them. Worth their weight in gold. They truly understand how to be encouraging .

Depression.

FWIW
The source of "it's supposedly in the Bible" that suicide is a direct ticket to hades -
Jesus says of Judas, who would betray him, that it would have been better for Judas had he not been born.
Judas later hangs himself.
Jesus words are understood as meaning Judas goes to hades.

It's assumed that Judas became despairing and hopeless and without faith.
That's the assumed reason *why* he committed suicide.
Those two seem reasonable assumptions and reflect circumstances surrounding other people committing suicide.

Some people interpret Jesus' words as referring to Judas' act of suicide, not to the very specific situation.
Then some make a logical leap, that Jesus' words apply to all who commit suicide.
Not all Christians interpret Jesus' words that way, and of those that do, not all make that logical leap.

The takeaway - Jesus is referring to Judas specifically, but the passage has been misapplied.

Lutheran pastor here.
I know well (and believe) the love of our heavenly Father and the redemptive work of Christ. I preach it all the time.

However, I also know depression well through personal experience and I have had suicidal thoughts.
Joy in Jesus doesn't eradicate depression any more than it removes cancer.
Depression is evident in Job in the Old Testament as well as in many of the Psalms.

As other guys have mentioned, mental health is a serious concern and help should be sought from competent professionals. You can "tough it out" through ear infections, heart conditions, etc., but the results won't always be positive, just as trying to tough it out through depression.

For me personally, one very helpful thing that my doctor recommended was a GeneSight test, about 2 years ago. I think it was just a cheek swab at the lab. The results showed how my body breaks down different medication. It grouped all antidepressants (as well as other medications) into three categories: red, yellow and green. The medicine that I was on at the time was in the red column and not working at all. Without finding the sheet, I *think* that I have a gene that causes my liver to produce an extra enzyme that breaks down that medication too fast to have any beneficial effect.

That's a very helpful medical advancement that makes finding an effective medication less random.
Brian

I just wish God would take us when we are used up.
I do not want/ desire to live if I can not hunt/ fish/ trap/ work/ cut firewood ect...
I WILL NOT go into a nursing home!!

Little by little the devil gets in the person mind and that's all they hear you are worthless you can't do anything right end it just shoot yourself and be done with it. The afterlife is not going to be a picnic for that person and they will have all of eternity to think what he did in torment.

I had a rough time coming up as a kid. I have had some dark moments. One time the thought of "why is it even worth it to go on like this?" popped into my head. It startled the crap out of me, and at 12 years old, I made a pact with myself to never let those thoughts ever come back up!
I realized that I had survived so far in spite of what I had been through, I can survive whatever comes my way in the future.
Pretty heavy thoughts for a twelve year old. And yes, I did beat the brakes off of anyone who bullied me at anyone else around me whether I knew them or not. Other than that, all I had to do was survive my horrific home life for 6 more years when I could move out, go to college, meet the woman of my dreams, land the best job in the world, and watch my two boys grow up to be productive and gentle men.
All because I made that pact with myself.

some peoples brain doesnt work right. they dont choose it. its called mental illness.

The best post on this thread. Thank you.

now if they would only make a test to help people figure out their gender!!!

Way off topic for this thread But how do you feel about the Lutherans marring same sex couples? My great aunt and Incle would be rolling in their Graves to know their church if flying a pride flag.

Sharon What you say is so very true and yet we often overlook the sacrifices many veterans have made And in more recent times they have been the target of hate and been made to be the scapegoat

They do, it's called birth!

To answer your question:
Those are different Lutherans; the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America)
The ELCA is the largest Lutheran denomination in the States. It's also the most liberal Lutheran denomination.
They're ok with abortion, homosexuality, transgender, female pastors, evolution, critical view of the Bible...

I'm in the LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod). We're much more conservative. We're not ok with any of those things but we're the 2nd largest Lutheran denomination in the States. Being larger and in line with the current social agenda, the ELCA gets more press. We find it an embarrassment that gay pride gets associated with the name Lutheran.

To the topic of the thread: I'm very glad you've had such a variety of helpful replies. It's a difficult topic.

I bet you're growing a lot with many splitting off. Presbyterian and Methodists also have different groups and having a lot of splitting. My cousins church voted to split and everyone brought extra money several months to buy the church and property so they could break away.

I sure would not want to be one of the preachers perverting the word of God on judgment day and be known as leasing people astray.

I don't know all the doctrine between different denomination let alone between them. Sounds like yours is similar to Southern Baptist at least on what you listed.

Not on my watch, they don't hate on vets...I'll drill a new hole up their nose.

All the brave , truly masculine MEN in my life, beginning with my father, are all cherished and valued. No one tells me to abandon my vets , or any vet .

Too many are incapable of having the discernment to separate the men in service, and any war they served in.

Many vets see clearly the separation of the two. While hating the political maneuvering that causes wars, they love their brothers that served with them, who had each other's 6. My father loved the planes he flew and as a gunner in WW2, but openly hated the war he served in.

Generally, it is those who never have tested their testosterone in service, who look down their nose at men whom they don't even have a clue of what they endured. They are not fit to be in the same room with those vets.

It is not the "politics", but the brave men who cared and did what they could at the time.

Those who disrespected Vietnam vets were not allowed in my father's home. Even relatives .

Vets pay the rest of their lives, even after active service. They deserve all we have to help when they have their dark times to cope in civilian life.

As Judge Jeanine says, " and that's all I have to say about THAT. ..."

Thank you ma’am.

One word.The devil.

that's two words!

I noticed that too, but figured the devil made him do it.