There is a lot to take in here.

My take on it is that Jesus is calling out the Jews as descendants from Abraham, but in the line of Esau; thus Edomites. John 8:33 clearly states that they said they were never in bondage. Although, every Sunday school kid knows that all the tribes were in bondage in Egypt. I think it is an interesting conversation between Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior of mankind and also the the jews.

The prophecy of Obadiah in verse 18 makes it clear that the house of Esau will be destroyed. Esau married two Caananite wives.

Hoping for a good discussion and not criticism.

Easau sold his birth right

Myself i brake the chapters and verses down into small segments.
There is a lot a thing that you can miss if you read it like a book,,,

In 8 33 the Jews would be wrong because they were enslaved for 40 year in the desert for someone mess up…..

The way I read it, it’s God calling out our short comings and the need for Him and His perfect offering for the salvation.. most can’t imagine coming out of Egypt watching God open the sea to give escape (salvation) only to watch that same escape swallow up your oppressors but yet a few laters you’re fabricating an idol to worship in the face of our salvation.. to be honest it’s most of our experience, the human experience. History repeats.

Verse 18 is taking about the Muslim Nation…….

Don't fear the reaper,,,,,He is on are side,,, no matter now big of poop you are as long as you believe in one thing….

Best talks sometimes are in a bar drinking wedding wine………

So since the Egyptians enslaved the Jews for 40 years are they able to qualify for reparations?
When does the official time line expire for reparations?
Didn't mean to get off topic but it just hit me...crazy world.

They were not Jews then. ……..Believers fight the Battle to the End
with what ever gift they were given
with the help of God
till it ends,,,,

Appreciate the topic guys..Thank You!

Chancey,
I'm confused about the the Prophecy you speak of in vs18?
Isn't Jesus speaking of the law of two witnesses?

I just read Obadiah, I thought you were speaking of John 8: 18.
Just like the womon that committed adultery at the beginning of John Ch 8 ,and Esau selling his birth right for food. None of us are righteous to judge another because we a not without sin.
So only through the righteousness of Jesus are we just. And without Jesus no man will be justified.

Even though Jesus told the Jewish leaders they where Abraham's seed, he also said there father was the devil.
Interesting concept to the very peaple that were claiming that they are the sons of God.

You referenced John, Chapter 8. What specific verses are you discussing ? The conversation is jumping verses a bit.
Thanks..

Even though Jesus told the Jewish leaders they where Abraham's seed, he also said there father was the devil.
Interesting concept to the very peaple that were claiming that they are the sons of God.

How about the fact that they were inslaved for 400 years in Egypt?
I wonder if the Jewish leaders meant they were under the law of God therefore not inslaver by man.
Funny thing is to be justified by the law, is to be in bondage.

No particular verse Trader Vic, just Chapter 8 as a whole and the context between the discussion between Jesus and the Jews. Jesus identified these people not of Abraham or of God, (John 8:39-47); and also not His sheep in (John 10:26-30). These Jews themselves testified to not being part of Israel by their response to Christ's words "the truth shall make you free,". saying they "were never in bondage by any man." (John 8:33).

I don't understand the connection you're making to Esau. Can you lay it out for me?

What I see is Jesus recentering the locus or qualifications for entry into God's family away from genetics and onto himself.

The mixed remnant of Judah, after returning from the Babylon captivity in the time of Ezra and Nehemiah became known as the nation of the Jews; a name not applied to Judah before the Babylonian captivity. Included in this nation were the Edomites (know to the Greeks as Idumeans), who had occupied Jerusalem during the captivity period. King Herod was an example of this, as he was of Idumean (Edomite) origin and thus not Israelite.

The Edomites are all descendants from Esau (Genesis 36).

Edom as a state was done away by A Babylonian King Nabonidus and later by the Nabateans which completed its invasion and forced the Edomites from Petra. After the Nabateans defeated the Edomites in the fifth century B.C., the Edomites were forced to move south of Israel to an area called Idumea, which is now Mount Hebron.

Later at the end of the Maccabean revolt they were forced to conversion of the Idumeans (Edomites) to Judaism by John Hyrcanus. That did away with Edom as a people. But that brought in the mad psychotic Herod which was of Edom bloodline. He caused the blood shed of many Jewish babies. Many say that was punishment for forcing the Edomites into Judaism.

While as a state and people Edom disappeared but the Spiritual Edom will still be here until the the second coming of Christ.

Goes to show you the results of forced religion.

It is a multi-faceted conversation, both literal and figurative. He speaks concerning spiritual sonship, they reason of fleshly genetics. Read on, Jesus tells them he knows they are "Abraham's seed" but it is sons of Abraham's flesh that they claim sonship. This is not the Abraham of faith that Jesus wants them to become (spiritual). The flesh is not justified by the law, neither is it justified by our genetics, position, sex or anything other than the shed blood and completed work of Jesus Christ alone. See Romans 4.

In their eyes, the Roman occupation was not enslavement or "bondage", thus they felt they (themselves-not the Jewish people historically) were not in bondage. They didn't see a need to be made free, if they were already free. Jesus explains that they are servants to sin.

By the way, not all the Jews were taken captive by the Babylonians; a large population remained in Israel during "the captivity."
They lived in a pitiful state, but were not enslaved in Babylon.