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Mountain Man Monday #3 #8259995
11/11/24 10:11 PM
11/11/24 10:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
A Free Trapper's Contract
Wait, I thought free trappers didn't have contracts? Some didn't, while many did. Free trappers would often sign on with a specific fur company for a season or two, not as an employee, but as a contractor, in today's terminology. An example of a free trappers' contract can be found between Johnson Gardner (trapper) and Kenneth MacKenzie (American Fur Company agent) Gardner and MacKenzie agreed that Gardner would trap, and MacKenzie would buy his beaver " at the price per pound net weight of four dollars and twelve and a half cents" ... "on the spot where it is cached, the weight thereof to be regulated and adjusted by Francis A. Chardon and James A. Hamilton on its arrival at Ft. Union, the number of skins being ..... and the weight now considered to be ..... " There followed a long list of goods that Gardner would agree to buy, which MacKenzie agreed to supply. Each year these contracts would be renegotiated and signed by the trapper with their mark.

Free Trapper Study by Paul Calle
[Linked Image]

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260046
11/11/24 11:15 PM
11/11/24 11:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Good stuff. There certainly is a lot of misunderstandings about how all the company and free trapper stuff worked out during that period. Do you have any comment on contractual differences between the British companies and their American counterparts? I know they (Hudson Bay) brought in a lot of labor including eastern Indian tribal members and Sandwich Islanders.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260052
11/11/24 11:26 PM
11/11/24 11:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Minnesota
Good Stuff k snow


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260069
11/11/24 11:50 PM
11/11/24 11:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
chelsea,wi
keets Offline
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keets  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
chelsea,wi
$4.12.5 per # was big money then, I assume?


2021 goals....make time to trap
PROUD MEMBER WTA NTA FTA GOA SPORTSMANS ALLIANCE
Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260085
11/12/24 12:19 AM
11/12/24 12:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
^^^For mountain prices in the early 1830's I think that was a very good price. Would have made a prime blanket beaver worth about $7. Great money in those days.

In 1825 Gardner convinced a bunch of Hudson bay trappers to sell their beaver to him for $3.50 a lb. That almost lead to bloodshed with Ogden's Hudson Bay brigade.

K snow, didn't Gardner eventually get killed by the Arikara?


Last edited by beaverpeeler; 11/12/24 12:24 AM.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260152
11/12/24 07:17 AM
11/12/24 07:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
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Trapper Dahlgren  Offline
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T

Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
good read guys thanks,

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260177
11/12/24 07:56 AM
11/12/24 07:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Offline
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Offline
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Good stuff


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260189
11/12/24 08:16 AM
11/12/24 08:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Northern Maine
Bruce T Offline
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Bruce T  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Northern Maine
Very nice.Thanks for sharing


NRA,NTA,MTA,FTA

#1 goal=Trap a wolverine
Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: beaverpeeler] #8260192
11/12/24 08:22 AM
11/12/24 08:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
Good stuff. There certainly is a lot of misunderstandings about how all the company and free trapper stuff worked out during that period. Do you have any comment on contractual differences between the British companies and their American counterparts? I know they (Hudson Bay) brought in a lot of labor including eastern Indian tribal members and Sandwich Islanders.


I haven't done a ton of reading into the operations of the Hudson Bay Co, but I know early they had 3 year contracts for their new employees. And you worked your way up from pork eater (new guy) to hivernant (one who spent the winter in country with the Indians) and up. Promotion from within was the only way to advance in the HBC. And yes, later on they imported a lot of labor from the East, not sure what those "contracts" looked like at all.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: beaverpeeler] #8260195
11/12/24 08:24 AM
11/12/24 08:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
^^^For mountain prices in the early 1830's I think that was a very good price. Would have made a prime blanket beaver worth about $7. Great money in those days.

In 1825 Gardner convinced a bunch of Hudson bay trappers to sell their beaver to him for $3.50 a lb. That almost lead to bloodshed with Ogden's Hudson Bay brigade.

K snow, didn't Gardner eventually get killed by the Arikara?



If there's one thing I an bad with, it's names and dates. I've never been a good historian, I can't remember that stuff to save my soul. I am much more of a hobby anthropologist/archaeologist, with an emphasis on using what they had to do what they did (experimental archaeology).

But yes, Gardner rings a bell as having a role in that episode.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260200
11/12/24 08:29 AM
11/12/24 08:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
There were a lot of different ways it could be done and this was one of them. Thanks for detailing it, these posts are interesting.

These free trappers could make a LOT of money in a short amount of time. A few of them went back east after a couple years and bought a farm or something of that nature, but most of them preferred to stay in the mountains. Some of them blew most of their money at the rendezvous and then did it all over again each year.

One thing of interest, most art shows mountain men as grizzled old men, but most of them were in their 20's. By the time the Mountain man period came to a close (the last rendezvous was in 1840) they were 35-40, with very few older than that.

Keep this stuff coming!

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: BernieB.] #8260203
11/12/24 08:34 AM
11/12/24 08:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by BernieB.
There were a lot of different ways it could be done and this was one of them. Thanks for detailing it, these posts are interesting.

These free trappers could make a LOT of money in a short amount of time. A few of them went back east after a couple years and bought a farm or something of that nature, but most of them preferred to stay in the mountains. Some of them blew most of their money at the rendezvous and then did it all over again each year.

One thing of interest, most art shows mountain men as grizzled old men, but most of them were in their 20's. By the time the Mountain man period came to a close (the last rendezvous was in 1840) they were 35-40, with very few older than that.

Keep this stuff coming!


Spot on about the age Bernie. I struggle to include pictures with these posts sometimes, as I know there are Issues with almost all of them. The pic with this one is more like a guy who was a free trapper during the boom, and stayed in the mountains for the rest of his life. Beards were also uncommon in the mountains. Lots of shaving equipment was brought to and sold in the mountains. Beards were not in style, quickly identified you as a non-native, and harbored lice.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260225
11/12/24 08:57 AM
11/12/24 08:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
Originally Posted by k snow
Originally Posted by BernieB.
There were a lot of different ways it could be done and this was one of them. Thanks for detailing it, these posts are interesting.

These free trappers could make a LOT of money in a short amount of time. A few of them went back east after a couple years and bought a farm or something of that nature, but most of them preferred to stay in the mountains. Some of them blew most of their money at the rendezvous and then did it all over again each year.

One thing of interest, most art shows mountain men as grizzled old men, but most of them were in their 20's. By the time the Mountain man period came to a close (the last rendezvous was in 1840) they were 35-40, with very few older than that.

Keep this stuff coming!


Spot on about the age Bernie. I struggle to include pictures with these posts sometimes, as I know there are Issues with almost all of them. The pic with this one is more like a guy who was a free trapper during the boom, and stayed in the mountains for the rest of his life. Beards were also uncommon in the mountains. Lots of shaving equipment was brought to and sold in the mountains. Beards were not in style, quickly identified you as a non-native, and harbored lice.


Yeah the coonskin cap was a myth too. Hard to find accurate pictures.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260227
11/12/24 08:59 AM
11/12/24 08:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Yep, I've got a write up on hats and headgear also. Sure ruffles feathers in the buckskinning community.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260228
11/12/24 09:01 AM
11/12/24 09:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2023
Pennsylvania
elsmasho82 Online content
trapper
elsmasho82  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Jan 2023
Pennsylvania
I’ve seen big big bear traps, and replicas labeled Mackenzie online. I’d imagine that’s the same Mackenzie?

Very good read , thanks for doing this!

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: elsmasho82] #8260230
11/12/24 09:02 AM
11/12/24 09:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by elsmasho82
I’ve seen big big bear traps, and replicas labeled Mackenzie online. I’d imagine that’s the same Mackenzie?

Very good read , thanks for doing this!


MacKenzie goes way back in the fur trade, you'll see that name used on a lot of stuff, whether the connection is direct or not.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260293
11/12/24 11:06 AM
11/12/24 11:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Iowa
S
Squirt Offline
trapper
Squirt  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2020
Iowa
Thank you for sharing this information very interesting stuff

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: Squirt] #8260294
11/12/24 11:11 AM
11/12/24 11:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Squirt
Thank you for sharing this information very interesting stuff


More than happy to share.

Let me know if there are any topics you'd like info about.

I am working on some on the trapping techniques they used.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: k snow] #8260299
11/12/24 11:20 AM
11/12/24 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Idaho, Lemhi County
G
Gulo Offline
"On The Other Hand"
Gulo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Idaho, Lemhi County
k snow - My new favorite thread. Thanks. Educating me!!

Jack


Books for sale on Amazon, Barnes & Noble etc.
Poetic Injustice
The Last Hunt
Wild Life
Long Way Home
Fishin' Stories
Re: Mountain Man Monday #3 [Re: Gulo] #8260313
11/12/24 11:30 AM
11/12/24 11:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Online content OP
trapper
k snow  Online Content OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by Gulo
k snow - My new favorite thread. Thanks. Educating me!!

Jack


Wow, I am flattered, seriously. Thank you for making my day. I hope I can continue to meet your expectations.

It was your photo phriday posts that gave me the idea.

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