No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Mountain Man Monday #6 #8277082
12/02/24 09:22 PM
12/02/24 09:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Sign Language in the West
One of the many paintings by AJ Miller is titled: "Conversing by Signs". On the back of his field sketch, Miller wrote:
In one of our hunting excursions, we encountered a small pa rty of Indians, our interpreter was not present, and it was desireable to have some information that we stood in need of. The sketch represents the Indians communicating this by signs, which he does by graceful actions and significant gesture, so that in the main, it is readily comprehended by persons, of course having some practice and experience. Some of the signs are easily interpreted, for instance, joining the palms of the hands and throwing them upwards and outward, to signify daytime, action reversed, palms down, night...


George Ruxton, in his Ruxton of the Rockies, wrote of Indian Sign language:
The language of signs is so perfectly understood in the Western country, and the Indians themselves are such admirable pantomimists, that, after a little use, no difficulty whatever exists in carrying on a conversation by such a channel; and there are few mountain men who are at a loss in thoroughly understanding and making themselves intelligible by signs alone, although they neither speak nor understand a word of the Indian tongue.

Alfred Jacob Miller's "Conversing by Signs"
[Linked Image]

Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277086
12/02/24 09:29 PM
12/02/24 09:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Iowa
S
Squirt Offline
trapper
Squirt  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Apr 2020
Iowa
Thanks again K Snow this is great stuff been waiting all week to see what you would come up with next

Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277092
12/02/24 09:35 PM
12/02/24 09:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Good stuff!

If I remember correctly, the sign for "beaver" is holding the palm of one hand over the top of the other and then slapping the top of the lower hand to the palm of the upper one as in a beaver tail slap.

West of the rockies in the Pacific Northwest sign language wasn't much in vogue, Chinook "wawa" or jargon reigned which was a trade language composed of a mix of various coastal languages plus some French and a little English for good measure.

When the tribes were rounded up and put on reservations in the 1850's Chinook was the common language understood by all. Early fur traders and later even settlers learned quite a bit of it. My father who was born on the Columbia river in 1910 knew quite a smattering of Chinook words. You may as well. Ever hear the word "Siwash"? A bastardization of the French "Sauvauge" for Indian. Chinook wawa right there.

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 12/02/24 10:58 PM.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277137
12/02/24 10:40 PM
12/02/24 10:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Yep Peeler, according to Tomkin, who recorded the sign language while working with Dakota, beaver was signed by holding the left hand flat in front, palm down. Right hand below, palm down also. Then slap left hand with upward movement of right hand.

In the East, native languages blended with French.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277154
12/02/24 10:56 PM
12/02/24 10:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
trapper
beaverpeeler  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Oregon
Yep. But you described it better than I. LOL

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 12/02/24 10:56 PM.

My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277257
12/03/24 06:15 AM
12/03/24 06:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
T
Trapper Dahlgren Offline
trapper
Trapper Dahlgren  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2016
Michigan
thanks for the info.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277284
12/03/24 07:46 AM
12/03/24 07:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Leftlane Online content
"HOSS"
Leftlane  Online Content
"HOSS"

Joined: Dec 2009
The Hill Country of Texas
Good read thanks for posting


What"s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.
Captain Gus McCrae- Texas Rangers


Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277300
12/03/24 08:18 AM
12/03/24 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
BernieB. Offline
trapper
BernieB.  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Northern Minnesota
I think it's a shame that Plains Indian Sign language has died out for the most part. I doubt if there is anyone who is still proficient at it.

Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277312
12/03/24 08:32 AM
12/03/24 08:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Yeah Bernie, that is a shame. The American Mountain Men have a requirement for one of their higher levels to know 200 signs (if memory serves me correctly). I doubt that would make you proficient, but at least it would be something.

Tomkins' book is about the best there is out there for how to make the signs.

Another example is the sign for otter. Hold your hands at the side of your head, index finger pointing down. Move your hands down while spinning your finger in a little circle.
This illustrates the very common practice among Plains Indians of wrapping their hair braids in otter fur.

Running Deer-Kiowa, braids wrapped in strips of otter fur.
[Linked Image]

Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: k snow] #8277360
12/03/24 09:54 AM
12/03/24 09:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Williamsport, Pa.
J
jk Online content
trapper
jk  Online Content
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Williamsport, Pa.
In your "Running Deer-Kiowa" photo, are those porcy quills in the chest covering? If so here in pa we do not have anything like that sized quills.......jk


Free people are not equal. Equal people are not free. What's supposed to be ain't always is. Hopper Hunter
Re: Mountain Man Monday #6 [Re: jk] #8277363
12/03/24 09:57 AM
12/03/24 09:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
K
k snow Offline OP
trapper
k snow  Offline OP
trapper
K

Joined: Oct 2009
east central WI
Originally Posted by jk
In your "Running Deer-Kiowa" photo, are those porcy quills in the chest covering? If so here in pa we do not have anything like that sized quills.......jk


They are bone "hair pipes", fashioned into a breastplate. In the late 18th century, they were manufactured by the thousands from bone. Originally they were craved from shell.

The "roach" on his head is made from porcupine guard hair.

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread