Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: nvwrangler]
#8330754
02/02/25 11:51 PM
02/02/25 11:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
NonPCfed
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2015
se South Dakota
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The post office is the first example I can think of. It's going broke yet UPS, Fed x and DHL make great profits and are typically faster amd more reliable at least I'm my area.
The private sector is typically much more efficient. I've shipped a couple thousand packages through USPS selling on ebay over the years and maybe 5 have gotten lost (I think a couple to HI actually got stolen at the residence) and maybe 5 more that took a couple weeks to show up. The post office here in suburban land is much easier to do than either FedEx or UPS. DHL, h..., I've never seen one of their trucks in this metro, although I did see and photograph their big air hub somewhere in Ohio once.
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: NonPCfed]
#8330783
02/03/25 01:37 AM
02/03/25 01:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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The post office is the first example I can think of. It's going broke yet UPS, Fed x and DHL make great profits and are typically faster amd more reliable at least I'm my area.
The private sector is typically much more efficient. I've shipped a couple thousand packages through USPS selling on ebay over the years and maybe 5 have gotten lost (I think a couple to HI actually got stolen at the residence) and maybe 5 more that took a couple weeks to show up. The post office here in suburban land is much easier to do than either FedEx or UPS. DHL, h..., I've never seen one of their trucks in this metro, although I did see and photograph their big air hub somewhere in Ohio once. For a long stretch of time packages would show delivered to my house and after a week or two my wife would file lost package paperwork. And about 40% of the time it would show up about a week or so later. After a while if there were shipping options available it was the last choice. That was about a 13 month stretch. make a trip to the post office and it may or may not be open. Mail may come daily or every few days. I suspect it's a local man powered issue. Mostly the post ovf being open depends on if the people chose to show up to work. I was guessing the drivers skipped sections of the rout either because of being short handed or they took the day oof and delivered it later. I figured I was taking the day off paid since the package showed marked delivered and they had not been and they wanted them to look like they had been. I can't be sure of why only guess to that. But they were not delivered when they said they were. Edit. this is the post office...
Last edited by Providence Farm; 02/03/25 02:12 AM.
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: nvwrangler]
#8330791
02/03/25 02:05 AM
02/03/25 02:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Idaho
bearcat2
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Idaho
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Post office is way more convenient here, even though their hours are odd, they are generally cheaper for small packages and much closer. Ups is reliable and cheaper on large and/or heavy packages, but an hour farther away. Fed Ex is the absolutely last option, their employees are bottom of the barrel, aren't smart enough to read addresses and the packages are always beat to pieces, not surprising, whenever I have been here when they deliver, they open the back of the truck and nothing is on the shelves or organized, just a big pile of packages on the floor they paw through until they find (hopefully) the right package. Plus everything shipped Fed Ex regardless of where it comes from goes to Troutdale Oregon (about six hours west of me, and most of them are coming from the East and have to be trucked past me) and kicks around there anywhere from a day to a week or two, before it comes back to me. I always cringe when something I order is coming Fed Ex, and to ship using them I would have to drive even farther than for UPS.
I've seen a DHL truck on the interstate while traveling before, but wasn't even aware they delivered to noncommercial don't think they do this area.
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: nvwrangler]
#8330835
02/03/25 06:58 AM
02/03/25 06:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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USPS here gets to Kansas City then just sits there. Sometimes we dont get any mail delivered to the post office. No mail. None. It goes to Ottawa first then here to burg. Never gets to Ottawa some days. I dont know what is going on in KC but its bad. UPS and FEDX both deliver to the house. USPS will not. UPS and FEDX deliver when they say they will. USPS is more often than not a week late. Have to go to Lawrence today because my wifes W2 has disappeared into the black hole of KC distribution.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: nvwrangler]
#8330851
02/03/25 07:35 AM
02/03/25 07:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Jtrapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
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Fed ex is a joke, just had to drive to Arkansas to get what i ordered cause for two weeks they hauled it back and forth. Goofy girl driver last week drove out on a iron bridge on an abandoned road and got stuck in the fed ex van and had to get a wrecker to get it out, she was charged with dui, lol. No clue how fed ex stay's in business. Quit fooling with ups probably 25 years ago.
Not my circus, not my clowns.
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: nvwrangler]
#8330973
02/03/25 10:34 AM
02/03/25 10:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
NC - Here there and everywhere
coondagger2
"Brat"
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"Brat"
Joined: Dec 2012
NC - Here there and everywhere
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Private industry isn't always the solution. It baffles me what is passed on as good work by the private engineering firms we deal with. I am an Engineer for a public entity, not federal but state. We design and construct a majority of our projects but we can't design them all. I think we have 47 active projects right now and there are only 3 Engineers in the department. We designed probably 30 of those 47.
One project that I am putting out for bids soon is a consultant/private designed project. 20 million dollar project. It is almost 2 years behind schedule because it took them 4 tries to get their erosion control permit, 4 tries to get through county/city permitting, and 3 tries to get through health department permitting. All of the issues they had were very simple things that should be elementary for Engineers.
The cherry on top is that when they sent me their final plans for construction they were pitiful. Misnumbering of sheets, their keynote callouts didn't match the legend, storm drain pipes that decreased in size as the run went on, you name it. Just pitiful quality control on a set of plans that is YEARS in the making. This consultant on just this project has been paid more than what our entire department budget is yearly.
It's not just that company either, we have had very similar experiences with private engineering firms on the last 4 or 5 projects. Heck, last year we started designing a culvert project at the same time that a consultant was hired to design another culvert project.
The culvert we designed has been designed, bid, constructed, and final permitted. The consultant designed culvert doesn't even have a complete design yet, and now they are asking us to do the construction administration and inspections on it.
People only see construction timelines and don't realize all that goes on behind the scenes to get to that point. Private industry is not always the fastest route. In my field it is usually a way to spend more money and double the time it takes to get something done.
Gotta live up to the nickname...
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: coondagger2]
#8330987
02/03/25 10:44 AM
02/03/25 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
AntiGov
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
Central Oregon
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Private industry isn't always the solution. It baffles me what is passed on as good work by the private engineering firms we deal with. I am an Engineer for a public entity, not federal but state. We design and construct a majority of our projects but we can't design them all. I think we have 47 active projects right now and there are only 3 Engineers in the department. We designed probably 30 of those 47.
One project that I am putting out for bids soon is a consultant/private designed project. 20 million dollar project. It is almost 2 years behind schedule because it took them 4 tries to get their erosion control permit, 4 tries to get through county/city permitting, and 3 tries to get through health department permitting. All of the issues they had were very simple things that should be elementary for Engineers.
The cherry on top is that when they sent me their final plans for construction they were pitiful. Misnumbering of sheets, their keynote callouts didn't match the legend, storm drain pipes that decreased in size as the run went on, you name it. Just pitiful quality control on a set of plans that is YEARS in the making. This consultant on just this project has been paid more than what our entire department budget is yearly.
It's not just that company either, we have had very similar experiences with private engineering firms on the last 4 or 5 projects. Heck, last year we started designing a culvert project at the same time that a consultant was hired to design another culvert project.
The culvert we designed has been designed, bid, constructed, and final permitted. The consultant designed culvert doesn't even have a complete design yet, and now they are asking us to do the construction administration and inspections on it.
People only see construction timelines and don't realize all that goes on behind the scenes to get to that point. Private industry is not always the fastest route. In my field it is usually a way to spend more money and double the time it takes to get something done. Sometimes , but not always , a successful company that is busy won't bother to bid on government projects due to all the red tape ...leaving wannabes to step in Not saying that's your situation .....but something to consider
The Vink for chief moderator....night shift ...11pm- 5am best coast time zone.....Free Marty
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: AntiGov]
#8331002
02/03/25 10:55 AM
02/03/25 10:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
NC - Here there and everywhere
coondagger2
"Brat"
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"Brat"
Joined: Dec 2012
NC - Here there and everywhere
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Sometimes , but not always , a successful company that is busy won't bother to bid on government projects due to all the red tape ...leaving wannabes to step in
Not saying that's your situation .....but something to consider Unfortunately we can't bid out professional services. We bid out construction. We have to put out requests for qualifications for engineering services and then select the highest qualified firm. Money does not even come into the conversation until after they are hired. Just because a firm has been around for a hundred years and is the most qualified on paper does not mean they actually will provide you with a quality product, but our qualifications selection process is set up to favor those that have been around a long time doing similar projects. I've noticed newer firms with younger engineers provide a much better final product because they want/need your future business.
Gotta live up to the nickname...
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: coondagger2]
#8331036
02/03/25 11:28 AM
02/03/25 11:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Sometimes , but not always , a successful company that is busy won't bother to bid on government projects due to all the red tape ...leaving wannabes to step in
Not saying that's your situation .....but something to consider Unfortunately we can't bid out professional services. We bid out construction. We have to put out requests for qualifications for engineering services and then select the highest qualified firm. Money does not even come into the conversation until after they are hired. Just because a firm has been around for a hundred years and is the most qualified on paper does not mean they actually will provide you with a quality product, but our qualifications selection process is set up to favor those that have been around a long time doing similar projects. I've noticed newer firms with younger engineers provide a much better final product because they want/need your future business. Sounds like government can't even figure out how to run a selection process to get a good company from what you've said. Government sets up selection process, makes selections bases off the results, then blaime those thay selections they selected for the incompetent job preformance. Sounds like it's the selection process and folks doing the selections failure to me. Do they ever read Google reviews, or word of mouth reference, and why don't you have firms that have done good work for you in the past continue doing the work?
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: Providence Farm]
#8331053
02/03/25 11:42 AM
02/03/25 11:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
NC - Here there and everywhere
coondagger2
"Brat"
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"Brat"
Joined: Dec 2012
NC - Here there and everywhere
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Sounds like government can't even figure out how to run a selection process to get a good company from what you've said. Government sets up selection process, makes selections bases off the results, then blaime those thay selections they selected for the incompetent job preformance.
Sounds like it's the selection process and folks doing the selections failure to me. Do they ever read Google reviews, or word of mouth reference, and why don't you have firms that have done good work for you in the past continue doing the work? Well heck since you know so much, do you want a job?  In all seriousness, I will agree that the selection criteria we have to follow are frustrating. You can't always pick who you want and at the end of the day the final decision is up to the department whose project it is. For example the fire chief makes the final selection on the design firm for a new fire department. We give our input but that isn't the final word. And I have also learned that word of mouth/references cannot be trusted. Even firms that have done good work in the past. It is such a volatile field that a firm that did good work for you 3 years ago can be made up of completely different people now. Or a firm that did good work for you can assign a different engineer to be the leader of the project and they can have a completely different level of competence than the last engineer you dealt with. Really you don't know until you get into it and see who the project team is and how they are working. If there was a way for us to terminate a contract after a couple months and select the next person things would probably go a lot smoother, but that won't ever be allowed. Really we need to be selecting the smaller firms that are hungrier for work and do a good job, but qualifications based selection processes are set up to pick the large corporate firms that have been around forever
Gotta live up to the nickname...
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: coondagger2]
#8331130
02/03/25 01:12 PM
02/03/25 01:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Sounds like government can't even figure out how to run a selection process to get a good company from what you've said. Government sets up selection process, makes selections bases off the results, then blaime those thay selections they selected for the incompetent job preformance.
Sounds like it's the selection process and folks doing the selections failure to me. Do they ever read Google reviews, or word of mouth reference, and why don't you have firms that have done good work for you in the past continue doing the work? Well heck since you know so much, do you want a job?  In all seriousness, I will agree that the selection criteria we have to follow are frustrating. You can't always pick who you want and at the end of the day the final decision is up to the department whose project it is. For example the fire chief makes the final selection on the design firm for a new fire department. We give our input but that isn't the final word. And I have also learned that word of mouth/references cannot be trusted. Even firms that have done good work in the past. It is such a volatile field that a firm that did good work for you 3 years ago can be made up of completely different people now. Or a firm that did good work for you can assign a different engineer to be the leader of the project and they can have a completely different level of competence than the last engineer you dealt with. Really you don't know until you get into it and see who the project team is and how they are working. If there was a way for us to terminate a contract after a couple months and select the next person things would probably go a lot smoother, but that won't ever be allowed. Really we need to be selecting the smaller firms that are hungrier for work and do a good job, but qualifications based selection processes are set up to pick the large corporate firms that have been around forever Sounds like a mess. And I didn’t think about how much people change jobs and turn over in companies these days. It to bad you can't make selection based on the individual doing the job more than the company they are currently working for. That way if a guy you really likes changed companies or maybe starts his own your geting the individual or team rather than the company. Would give companies incentive to keep high performers happy and working for them as well.
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: coondagger2]
#8331134
02/03/25 01:19 PM
02/03/25 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
MN
160user
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
MN
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Sometimes , but not always , a successful company that is busy won't bother to bid on government projects due to all the red tape ...leaving wannabes to step in
Not saying that's your situation .....but something to consider Unfortunately we can't bid out professional services. We bid out construction. We have to put out requests for qualifications for engineering services and then select the highest qualified firm. Money does not even come into the conversation until after they are hired. Just because a firm has been around for a hundred years and is the most qualified on paper does not mean they actually will provide you with a quality product, but our qualifications selection process is set up to favor those that have been around a long time doing similar projects. I've noticed newer firms with younger engineers provide a much better final product because they want/need your future business. Not long before I retired we had a new building built. It didn't go to the lowest bidder, it went to a HUB Zone (Historically Underutilized Business) bidder. It was a Charlie Foxtrot from the beginning. Part of the contract was for a basement/storm shelter under the building. When construction was 80% complete the "Engineers" did an inspection and realized that the basement was not handicap accessible and therefore we couldn't have it. They paid the contractor to haul the same dirt back in and FILL a newly constructed basement. The rates they charged for doing this was OUTRAGEOUS too.
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Fork in the road, for federal employees
[Re: gcs]
#8331243
02/03/25 03:51 PM
02/03/25 03:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Not all engineers graduate at the top of their class.. My son is a mechanical/systems engineer for a top military contractor, he just recently had to reassign one of his team because of shoddy work, so even at that high level they get clunkers. His best friend is management civil engineer , he's always complaining how hard it is to get good engineers, not all engineering schools are top level, so lots of misfits graduate and start entry level jobs where the bosses hope they can catch up to what they should already know. When I worked construction and inside my plant now Typically engineers are arrogant and cocky. They tend to act condescending and can't see the potential problems that are obvious or the simple solutions. Most of the time I believe it's because they get out of school and think now they have that degree it means they are knowledgeable. They are wrong it means they are educated. But they lack any practical hands on field experience. If they had field experience not just theory they would be better served as would the people they work for.
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