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Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: jbyrd63] #7878169
06/04/23 05:00 PM
06/04/23 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 5,254
illinois
J
jalstat Offline
trapper
jalstat  Offline
trapper
J

Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 5,254
illinois
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Problem lies in IF you try to resale it. People buying might go thru financing that requires a survey. Fix it now . If he is wrong he will have to pay your atty fees.

Yes to this the survey corners are correct he moves the fence at least that is how it works here like Jbyrd says problem will arise if you sell. If he doesn’t want to move the fence maybe lease him the 97 feet

Last edited by jalstat; 06/04/23 05:01 PM.
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #7878183
06/04/23 05:31 PM
06/04/23 05:31 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 13,144
SW Georgia
W
Wanna Be Offline
trapper
Wanna Be  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 13,144
SW Georgia
So if you put up a fence it better be on your property line? What if you just wanted to fence off a certain part of your property?

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #7878190
06/04/23 05:51 PM
06/04/23 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 12,060
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 12,060
MT
You got some great advice from your replies. If by all means you should get it done right. In my country there a lot of boundary lines that aren't even close.

I have seen some that are so far off, and I know they were never surveyed, paced off and was good enough.


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #7878234
06/04/23 07:00 PM
06/04/23 07:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 4,790
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
trapper
Bob_Iowa  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 4,790
North central Iowa
This is where you need a lawyer, because in Iowa the fence is the line, maybe Zim will see this and chime into this thread.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: OKforester] #8360523
03/08/25 09:03 PM
03/08/25 09:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 3
Texas/Oklahoma
B
brofisher Offline
trapper
brofisher  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 3
Texas/Oklahoma
Fencing doesn't mean what it use to. GPS coordinates in modern today rules over fences.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8360530
03/08/25 09:11 PM
03/08/25 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 12,060
MT
S
snowy Offline
trapper
snowy  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 12,060
MT
Fence lines are so far off in this country you wouldn't believe it. Surveying back in the day was just created work for next two generations. Lol


Give me a fish, I will eat for a day. Teach me to fish, I will eat for a lifetime
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8360581
03/08/25 10:20 PM
03/08/25 10:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,202
Washington State
H
humptulips Offline
trapper
humptulips  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,202
Washington State
Friend of mine bought a place that had an old barn. The barn was just a tear down, but it stood there, and the adjoining property was sold. The new owner of that property thought he owned the barn. The GIS on the county website showed the barn on my friends' property. The neighbor parked an old tractor in the barn and everything sat for a few years. Finally, my friend was clearing blackberry vines that had covered everything and told the neighbor he would have to move his tractor as my friend planned on knocking the old barn down. A lawsuit ensued. Surveys were done showing the actual line ran right through the middle of the barn. Court not only gave the neighbor the barn, it gave him the road to the barn as that must have been used to access the tractor, adverse possession.
Whole things seems crazy but it gets worse. My friend only lost about a half-acre, but the court ruled the loser, my friend, had to pay all legal costs, right around $180,000. He had to take bankruptcy.
I would give the neighbor your land that he is encroaching on before I went the lawyer route. It would be cheaper.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8360641
03/09/25 01:56 AM
03/09/25 01:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,982
Alaska and Washington State
W
waggler Offline
trapper
waggler  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,982
Alaska and Washington State
FYI. I didn't read the rest of the replies. However, most of these issues rest on State law and precedent.

However, there are a couple of issues that hold almost everywhere.
You say the corners are not where they are supposed to be. I don't know what you really mean by that. Are the current fence corners or other points not where they are supposed to be? The legal corners are where the original survey corners are. In some cases fences or other improvements are made, that encroach on the actual property line and can result in adverse possession, but not in the way that most people think.

Most people think that if a fence or other improvement has been there X number of years, that that fact then conveys property. That is not usually the case. In most States the knowledge of the mis-located fence or other improvement must be "open and notorious" for a period of years; often 7-10. So if you have been arguing for the last 15 years with your neighbor about his fence being on your side of the property, but you haven't done anything to enforce your position, you will probably lose when you go to court, and he will get the disputed property by adverse possession.

All of this varies from State to State, but if everyone knows about the encroachment, and it encroaches on you, you had better do something about it soon.

Last edited by waggler; 03/09/25 02:04 AM.

"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8360651
03/09/25 03:02 AM
03/09/25 03:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 389
Alaska
FishingHoleFind Offline
trapper
FishingHoleFind  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 389
Alaska
9/10 times the survey rules the roost, but in that 1/10 times you can get absolutely - sideways so you should definitely know your states laws.

Last edited by 330-Trapper; Yesterday at 10:21 AM. Reason: Avoiding the Profanity filter -
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8360653
03/09/25 03:20 AM
03/09/25 03:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 724
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline
trapper
Husky  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 724
North Pole, Alaska
I would stick with the survey.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8361664
03/10/25 04:36 PM
03/10/25 04:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,684
St. Louis Co, Mo
B
BigBob Offline
trapper
BigBob  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 22,684
St. Louis Co, Mo
Adverse possession laws can really bite you in the Butt!


Every kid needs a Dog and a Curmudgeon.

Remember Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor.

Beware! Jill Pudlewski, Ron Oates and Keven Begesse are liars and thiefs!
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8361839
03/10/25 08:39 PM
03/10/25 08:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,858
N. Carolina
S
Scout1 Offline
trapper
Scout1  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,858
N. Carolina
I hope all turns out good for you and your NEW neighbor if you decide to purchase. I would try talking the seller of said land into fixing the problem you will possibly have. Offer less or give him asking price if he can legally pinpoint correct corners. I own property from a split up old family farm. I have had all our property properly surveyed with plats recorded at the courthouse. When the family split this farm up they did nobody any favors. A adjoining meth head neighbor moved some property stakes just this last week between us, But the dumb female dog failed to see the survey pins right under ground level. Now there is a nice new barbwire fence between us. I am surprised at how the surveyors can find pins 10" under ground. A metal detector may be your friend?


-------------------------------------
DJT in 2024!
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: waggler] #8361918
03/10/25 09:48 PM
03/10/25 09:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,878
Missouri
H
HayDay Offline
trapper
HayDay  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,878
Missouri
Originally Posted by waggler
FYI. I didn't read the rest of the replies. However, most of these issues rest on State law and precedent.

However, there are a couple of issues that hold almost everywhere.
You say the corners are not where they are supposed to be. I don't know what you really mean by that. Are the current fence corners or other points not where they are supposed to be? The legal corners are where the original survey corners are. In some cases fences or other improvements are made, that encroach on the actual property line and can result in adverse possession, but not in the way that most people think.

Most people think that if a fence or other improvement has been there X number of years, that that fact then conveys property. That is not usually the case. In most States the knowledge of the mis-located fence or other improvement must be "open and notorious" for a period of years; often 7-10. So if you have been arguing for the last 15 years with your neighbor about his fence being on your side of the property, but you haven't done anything to enforce your position, you will probably lose when you go to court, and he will get the disputed property by adverse possession.

All of this varies from State to State, but if everyone knows about the encroachment, and it encroaches on you, you had better do something about it soon.


This seems to be the source of the problem. In MO, and I assume in other states as well, copies of the original surveys are kept in US Geological Study offices in Rolla. Each County, and Township, each section in each township. I think it is down to the 40 acre more or less quarter quarters. What the exact sizes and distances were supposed to be. The are NOT perfect 160 acre quarter sections, nor are they perfect 40 acre quarter quarters. They are all close, but very few are dead on. So and 80 may or may not be an 80.

So maybe 200 years or so ago, somebody used a set of chains, transits, rags on wagon wheels, etc and laid it all out. Then put it on paper. Did what they put down as pins actually match what they put on paper? And in 200 years since, did somebody move them.

As told to me by a surveyor, now days to revers the process, they will find a government survey landmark somehwere in the vicinity......could be miles away........ then using what was put on paper, backtrack to recreate it on land. It rarely, if ever ends up on same spot. And when that happens, now what? Nobody seems to be able or willing to say. Dropping a stink bomb like that into someone's lap seems unfair. The ultimate solution would be to do it all over again, this time using modern survey instruments. Don't see that happening. What they never seem willing to do is survey the fence lines and corners and create a description from that. A metes and bounds survey description. They do when you are diving property and you tell them where to set pins. But won't with a government survey.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Scout1] #8361933
03/10/25 10:03 PM
03/10/25 10:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 18,534
Iowa
~ADC~ Offline
The Count
~ADC~  Offline
The Count

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 18,534
Iowa
Originally Posted by Scout1
I hope all turns out good for you and your NEW neighbor if you decide to purchase.


I imaging he has decided by now since he posted this 2 years ago.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8362250
Yesterday at 10:09 AM
Yesterday at 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,357
Ohio
OhioBoy Offline
trapper
OhioBoy  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,357
Ohio
My first house ended up having like another 50 yards in the back yard. I put 8" treated corner posts in the actual surveyed corner and flagged them.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8362259
Yesterday at 10:26 AM
Yesterday at 10:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 68,150
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 68,150
Minnesota
Following


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8362267
Yesterday at 10:39 AM
Yesterday at 10:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,633
missoula, mt 59803
M
mttrapperguy Offline
trapper
mttrapperguy  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,633
missoula, mt 59803
I have been a professional fence contractor/installer for 35 years and surveyed pins that are professionally done and recorded at the courthouse rule over any fence line whether it has been there for 50 years or not.

Re: Fence vs Survey [Re: Wesley] #8362325
Yesterday at 02:25 PM
Yesterday at 02:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,105
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,105
Peoria County Illinois
I had this on my place. I thought I knew where the corners were based on the fence. It was off. The fence didn't matter and the new owner ripped the fence out and it was legal to do so. I didn't like it but I was mistaken.


Just passin through
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