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Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400000
05/08/25 01:38 PM
05/08/25 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
trapper
Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
You are absolutely right, Kansas.

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400001
05/08/25 01:41 PM
05/08/25 01:41 PM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Husky
Originally Posted by Foxpaw
Any thoughts or ideas what "dark energy" is or can do?


By “dark energy” do you mean black magic?


Perhaps I should have combined dark energy and dark matter in the question.

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400002
05/08/25 01:42 PM
05/08/25 01:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
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Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
So a question for you atheists: how did the universe begin?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400139
05/08/25 06:19 PM
05/08/25 06:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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DelawareRob  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Not an atheist.

But, this is what google says…


https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/big-questions/what-happened-early-universe




Re: Debate [Re: DelawareRob] #8400150
05/08/25 06:44 PM
05/08/25 06:44 PM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by DelawareRob
Not an atheist.

But, this is what google says…


https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/big-questions/what-happened-early-universe


That ain't gonna fit in Husky's 6000 yr window, lol. Can't get a dog out of a wolf in that time plus 4000 yrs.

Re: Debate [Re: wr otis] #8400171
05/08/25 07:06 PM
05/08/25 07:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
AR
J
J Staton Offline
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J Staton  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2024
AR
Originally Posted by wr otis
I don't know how the universe began. I don't know that it did begin. Much more likely that it's always contained the same matter relatively speaking.

The idea that the whole thing came into being six thousand years ago, that's completely ridiculous.

Unless you believe in an omnipotent God......

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400467
05/09/25 01:50 AM
05/09/25 01:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
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Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Where did the stuff that caused the Big Bang come from? And what purpose do stars have for evolution?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400477
05/09/25 04:54 AM
05/09/25 04:54 AM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Husky
Where did the stuff that caused the Big Bang come from? And what purpose do stars have for evolution?


Berean Standard Bible

Moses’ Staff

1Then Moses answered, “What if they do not believe me or listen to my voice? For they may say, ‘The LORD has not appeared to you.’”

2And the LORD asked him, “What is that in your hand?”

“A staff,” he replied.

3“Throw it on the ground,” said the LORD. So Moses threw it on the ground, and it became a snake, and he ran from it.

4“Stretch out your hand and grab it by the tail,” the LORD said to Moses, who reached out his hand and caught the snake, and it turned back into a staff in his hand.

5“This is so that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has appeared to you.”

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400478
05/09/25 04:54 AM
05/09/25 04:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
How do you know there was a big bang? How do you know time is linear and not circular?

When I was a little boy I thought there were tiny people in my transistor radio.

There are so many creation stories should we put a few hundred in a hat and draw to choose one? What if none of the creation stories are correct? Not big bang or any religions explanation.

Why is it so hard for people to admit that they don't know?


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400479
05/09/25 05:02 AM
05/09/25 05:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
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Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
What did you mean by that verse, Foxpaw?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400487
05/09/25 05:17 AM
05/09/25 05:17 AM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
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Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by Husky
What did you mean by that verse, Foxpaw?


Originally Posted by Husky
Where did the stuff that caused the Big Bang come from? And what purpose do stars have for evolution?


The stars are a result not the cause. Moses stretched out his arm and grabbed the snake by the tail and not behind the head which would have been safer. Its is similar to the power of a moving market, in that it comes from the creator and not the creature.

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400489
05/09/25 05:26 AM
05/09/25 05:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
if i see you throw a stick on the ground and it turns into a snake, pick it up and it becomes a stick, i will believe your version of creation


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Debate [Re: danny clifton] #8400491
05/09/25 05:33 AM
05/09/25 05:33 AM
Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
F
Foxpaw Offline
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Foxpaw  Offline
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Joined: May 2016
Southern Illinois
Originally Posted by danny clifton
if i see you throw a stick on the ground and it turns into a snake, pick it up and it becomes a stick, i will believe your version of creation


Oh ok, versus the stick picks up itself by its own power?

Re: Debate [Re: danny clifton] #8400660
05/09/25 12:00 PM
05/09/25 12:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
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Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Originally Posted by danny clifton
if i see you throw a stick on the ground and it turns into a snake, pick it up and it becomes a stick, i will believe your version of creation


I won’t be able to do that. But if YOU show me a ape turning into a human, I’ll believe evolution.

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400673
05/09/25 12:46 PM
05/09/25 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
Originally Posted by Husky
Originally Posted by danny clifton
if i see you throw a stick on the ground and it turns into a snake, pick it up and it becomes a stick, i will believe your version of creation


I won’t be able to do that. But if YOU show me a ape turning into a human, I’ll believe evolution.

Let's not talk about apes and gorillas and such after last night.


American Karens - not a fan
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400683
05/09/25 01:26 PM
05/09/25 01:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
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Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
What?

Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400691
05/09/25 02:01 PM
05/09/25 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
I am willing to make a couple suggestions to you Husky.
First....pay attention to what Waggler is trying to tell you. Remember what F.Scott Fitzgerald said....“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function"

Next.........in reference to your belief in a 6000 year old Earth, and universe........ There are currently, live trees in Sweden that date to over 8000 years old and one of them dates to over 9500 years. Derived by C14 dating of the live roots. C14 is quite accurate back to about 20,000 years. Beyond that and you need to switch systems..........but C14 has an accuracy of 50-100 years. Essentially nothing when dealing with ages you are talking about.

Also, very near your location is an archeological dig that has unearthed and identified....a molar and skull fragments of a three year old child that dates back to about 11000 years ago. The child was buried in a fire pit in an underground shelter... which were common in Alaska at that time. The associated charcoal remains in the fire pit are a perfect substances for C14 dating, as are the bone fragments. You can see these exhibits at the UAF museum in Fairbanks.

Give some thought to how it is possible for the Earth, our solar system and the universe to be all the same age..roughly.

Even within our own solar system there are a few objects that are three times the age of the sun and our planets. And in the remainder of the universe there are billions more of similar antiquity. I doubt you will believe any of that so here are a couple more sincere suggestions.

Go visit Yellowstone Park. Pay attention to the geology and maybe even talk to a ranger there if there is one that is knowledgeable on the subject. You will find that the current iteration of Yellowstone is the creation of a volcanic eruption 640,000 years ago. This can be dated by the local geology there. Especially a feature known as the Obsidian Cliffs. These are far too old to be dated by C14 method. In this case scientists have used the decay of potassium 40...K40 into its daughter element Argon 40..AR40. AR40 is a "noble" element. It does not decay further. It is stable. Since we can measure the ratio in the existing rock of K40 to AR40.......and we know the rate of decay of K40........we can calculate the age of the original rock formation event.

This eruption is only the latest one at Yellowstone. There have been at least two others that were much larger and much earlier. We can still see much earlier evidence of those events in a line that stretches southwest from Yellowstone ....across Idaho to the Oregon border. We can see a similar thing in the Hawaiian Islands. Those islands were all formed the same way at roughly the same spot. Due to plate tectonics those earlier islands are moving toward Asia until the oldest disappear beneath the surface as the Emperor Sea Mounts......plunging into the Aleutian Trench

So, since you are just 15, rather than suggest a college course in geology I am going to suggest two excellent DVD series that you can very likely get at a library near you.

This one is a decent introduction to the geology in general. The Prof that gives these lectures is very open to questions and will answer you as time permits. You can email him

https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-world-s-greatest-geological-wonders-36-spectacular-sites


https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/cosmology-the-history-and-nature-of-our-universe

This one will challenge you in a lot of ways. I suspect you will disbelieve a lot of it and some of it will seem like the prof is speaking a foreign language. I would encourage you to watch the whole thing. I think there are 36 lectures. Ignore the math if it gets confusing. The concepts of what we know and how we know it are more important than the math that proves it.

Last thing. Is a book. African Genesis by Robert Ardrey. Ardrey was educated as a zoologist but spent most of his life as a playwright. Consequently, the book is easy to read and I found it to reveal some amazing insights to the real world of nature and our place in it.
The book is out of print but I'm sure most any library will have it..or a used bookstore in Fairbanks


Mean As Nails
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400722
05/09/25 03:01 PM
05/09/25 03:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
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trapdog1 Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Iowa
Originally Posted by Husky
What?

A gorilla was bad juju on the memes thread last night. Best not go there again.


American Karens - not a fan
Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400733
05/09/25 03:25 PM
05/09/25 03:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
DelawareRob Offline
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DelawareRob  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2013
East of the Mason-Dixon Line
Good post White, very informative.




Re: Debate [Re: Husky] #8400826
05/09/25 05:59 PM
05/09/25 05:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
Husky Offline OP
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Husky  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2024
North Pole, Alaska
How do evolutionists all the different varieties of animals on the earth?

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