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Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8428996
07/01/25 11:46 AM
07/01/25 11:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Missouri
ol' dad Offline
trapper
ol' dad  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Missouri
Senate says they have the votes to pass it. Should know shortly. I'm not sure if this bill is a good or bad thing for the county. So much info to digest and figure out what is legit and what is rhetoric. I'm a big fan of Thomas Massie, who's makes a pretty good case against it. I also understand that there must be give and take in this whole process. I do believe Trump is trying to better our country and hope that his plan to grow us out of this debt works. If not, then it appears this bill may be adding jet fuel to the train heading for defaultville.

ol' dad

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429008
07/01/25 12:10 PM
07/01/25 12:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
H
hippie Offline
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hippie  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2010
pa
Passed, 50-50 with J.D. casting the tie bteaket.


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429016
07/01/25 12:26 PM
07/01/25 12:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2024
Kansas
S
someGuyInKansas Offline
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Joined: Oct 2024
Kansas
About the idea that this is never going to change. I thought this article described an interesting strategy. A group is trying to get independents who won't caucus with either party. The goal is not for them to get a majority of seats. Just enough to deprive both parties of having a majority. Then prevent anything (budget, etc) without balanced budget and stuff like that.

I could never vote for a democrat, or a left leaning independant. But if a conservative ran as an independent promising to not caucus with the republicans and only vote for responsible things.... I would be happy to vote for them.

Other than a tactic like this (which is a long shot), I agree its unlikely anything will change.

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429020
07/01/25 12:35 PM
07/01/25 12:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Makes me wonder why fiscal conservatives even waste their time voting?


Who is John Galt?
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: someGuyInKansas] #8429031
07/01/25 12:55 PM
07/01/25 12:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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SNIPERBBB  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by someGuyInKansas
About the idea that this is never going to change. I thought this article described an interesting strategy. A group is trying to get independents who won't caucus with either party. The goal is not for them to get a majority of seats. Just enough to deprive both parties of having a majority. Then prevent anything (budget, etc) without balanced budget and stuff like that.

I could never vote for a democrat, or a left leaning independant. But if a conservative ran as an independent promising to not caucus with the republicans and only vote for responsible things.... I would be happy to vote for them.

Other than a tactic like this (which is a long shot), I agree its unlikely anything will change.

Thats a fine idea in theory but with the way things are now, on must pass bills(budget/CR/defense auth) youll get enough cross over from the other party to pass. Unless you get a large enough bloc thats unified. Would need at least 20 I would think in the house

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429035
07/01/25 01:01 PM
07/01/25 01:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
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hippie Offline
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House already has such, the Freedom Caucus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429036
07/01/25 01:02 PM
07/01/25 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
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hippie Offline
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If the BBB doesn't pass the house, they'd be the reason.


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429038
07/01/25 01:03 PM
07/01/25 01:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Well hopefully the increase in economic activity from the tax cuts ie increased consumer spending( Americans can't budget or save money) Will increase the gdp and off or exceed set the revenue loss from the tax cuts.


So did the $0 DOLLAR tax stamp for suppressors and sbr and sbs make it through in the bill?

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429039
07/01/25 01:08 PM
07/01/25 01:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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hippie Offline
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pa
I think the parliamentarian took that out?


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: hippie] #8429040
07/01/25 01:09 PM
07/01/25 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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Rodney,Ohio
Originally Posted by hippie
House already has such, the Freedom Caucus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus

Theyd need to be stronger than what they've been in the past to get better results than they have.

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429041
07/01/25 01:09 PM
07/01/25 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
H
hippie Offline
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pa
Just listened to the head of them, says they won't pass it.


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429044
07/01/25 01:12 PM
07/01/25 01:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB Offline
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SNIPERBBB  Offline
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Rodney,Ohio
they shouldnt because its way worse than the version they sent over. hopefully the committee can fix it, but well see.

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429046
07/01/25 01:15 PM
07/01/25 01:15 PM
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pa
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hippie Offline
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Personally, I'd like to see it passed. There's alot of cuts in it I approve of highly.

Not sure they needed the tax cuts that big, but he could happen to be right about the affect they will have on our economy


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429048
07/01/25 01:17 PM
07/01/25 01:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK

Last edited by white17; 07/01/25 01:57 PM.

Mean As Nails
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429055
07/01/25 01:23 PM
07/01/25 01:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
H
hippie Offline
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Doesn't load for me Ken.


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429061
07/01/25 01:27 PM
07/01/25 01:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
SEPA
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Lugnut Offline
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SEPA
Me either.


Eh...wot?

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: warrior] #8429062
07/01/25 01:27 PM
07/01/25 01:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Missouri
ol' dad Offline
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Missouri
Our congress is akin to a runaway diesel. We've tried turning the key off and it doesn't work. The only way to stop it is to disconnect the fuel line. So how do we stop funding Congress without compromising our defense and safety?

Ol dad

Re: BBB in trouble [Re: hippie] #8429064
07/01/25 01:30 PM
07/01/25 01:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Indiana
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Providence Farm Offline
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Indiana
Originally Posted by hippie
I think the parliamentarian took that out?


Maybe I know she took out the removing them from NFA but I read someone put In something that removed the cost of tax stamp to 0 on suppressors and sbr and sbs. Still 200 for destructive devices and machine guns. And that's what I'm wondering if it stayed.

I have some cans I'm waiting on the results on before sending papers off

Last edited by Providence Farm; 07/01/25 01:31 PM.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: Providence Farm] #8429072
07/01/25 01:47 PM
07/01/25 01:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
pa
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hippie Offline
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pa
Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by hippie
I think the parliamentarian took that out?


Maybe I know she took out the removing them from NFA but I read someone put In something that removed the cost of tax stamp to 0 on suppressors and sbr and sbs. Still 200 for destructive devices and machine guns. And that's what I'm wondering if it stayed.

I have some cans I'm waiting on the results on before sending papers off


You're correct, it was reinstalled,

https://www.guns.com/news/2025/06/3...-forward-with-zero-tax-on-most-nfa-items

Still a chance for ya to save some money.


There comes a point liberalism has gone too far, we're past that point.
Re: BBB in trouble [Re: hippie] #8429075
07/01/25 01:54 PM
07/01/25 01:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by hippie
Doesn't load for me Ken.



Here it is


The Great Budget Baseline Con
The tax cuts don’t add $3.3 trillion to deficits under current tax policy.


The Senate on Monday began its “vote-a-rama” on amendments to the tax bill, and it was scheduled to go deep in the night. But before we see the final product, it’s worth rehearsing one more time one of the greatest distortions of this budget debate—to wit, that the Senate bill is a fiscal blowout because it will increase the federal deficit by $3.3 trillion over 10 years.


That’s the official Congressional Budget Office “score” of the bill, but it’s only true if you assume that Congress was going to tolerate a $4.5 trillion tax increase. That would be the result if the 2017 tax reform expired at the end of this year, as most of the individual tax provisions are scheduled to do.

Congress was never going to allow that. Even Democrats support extending most of the 2017 individual cuts except the lower 37% top marginal rate. Senate Republicans correctly argue that the bill’s cost should be measured against a more realistic baseline, which assumes that existing tax rates and policy continue.

In any rational world, changes in the law would be scored against current policy. But in Washington they are scored against CBO’s current-law “baseline,” which assumes that the 2017 tax cuts will expire. Voila, $3.3 trillion in new deficits over 10 years.

Based on current policy, however, CBO estimates that the Senate bill would save $500 billion over 10 years. Spending reductions would offset increased costs from President Trump’s new tax carve-outs for overtime, tips, and auto-loan interest, as well as the increase in the state-and-local tax deduction to $40,000. The higher SALT cap reduces revenue by $140 billion over 10 years. All of those changes are bad tax policy, but they don’t add up to $3.3 trillion.

But get this. Under CBO’s current-law baseline, the SALT deduction cap disappears at the end of this year, so the new $40,000 cap has the effect of reducing the deficit by $944 billion over 10 years. Only under Beltway accounting can a bigger tax subsidy reduce the deficit.

By the way, even Barack Obama’s advisers argued that Congress in 2012 should use a current policy baseline to extend most of the George W. Bush tax rates that were set to expire at the end of that year. “The relevant point of comparison isn’t current law, it is ‘current policy,’” wrote Jeff Zients, the Obama Office of Management and Budget director.

The larger SALT cap and tax breaks for special interests create distortions in the code and will do nothing for economic growth. Republicans also made them temporary to reduce their cost on paper, knowing that they will invariably be extended. Democrats have played similar budget tricks with “temporary” spending increases.

CBO’s baseline forecast is also misleading because it builds in annual spending increases. This lets Democrats claim that reforms that slow spending growth such as Medicaid work requirements are a spending “cut.” CBO projects that Medicaid spending will increase by about 4.5% annually over the next decade. The Senate bill slows the growth to about 2% a year. This isn’t a real cut.

The Senate bill, for all its faults, is the first serious attempt at entitlement reform in nearly two decades. The Senate bill will slow spending growth in Medicaid, food stamps and student loans. It will also roll back subsidies that have become entitlements for the renewable-energy industries. Yet Democrats oppose all of these changes that really would reduce the deficit in future years.

There is much in the GOP bill that deserves criticism, but the $3.3 trillion deficit critique is phony—like Beltway accounting.


Mean As Nails
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